Thinking out-loud...

jhugz

jhugz

Well-Known Member
A lot of people argue that this industry is in need of one union & one pilot group. With a pretty big split of 121/135/91 Frac stuff between ALPA and Teamsters w/ a couple on their own. Most seem to bash on IBT due to them not being pilots, however would it be a crazy idea for IBT to absorb ALPA? Let all the ALPA personal come onboard and run their own IBT 747 / IBT ALPA. This would merge all the IBT airlines w/ the ALPA airlines and help to complete the goal of one unified pilot group as only a few non-union / or own union airlines would be left.

Totally just brainstorming outloud w/ a couple :beer: in me.
 
jhugz said:
A lot of people argue that this industry is in need of one union & one pilot group. With a pretty big split of 121/135/91 Frac stuff between ALPA and Teamsters w/ a couple on their own. Most seem to bash on IBT due to them not being pilots, however would it be a crazy idea for IBT to absorb ALPA? Let all the ALPA personal come onboard and run their own IBT 747 / IBT ALPA. This would merge all the IBT airlines w/ the ALPA airlines and help to complete the goal of one unified pilot group as only a few non-union / or own union airlines would be left.

Totally just brainstorming outloud w/ a couple :beer: in me.
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Why don't you just worry about the AFA, or read flying the line vol's 1 and 2.
 
jhugz said:
A lot of people argue that this industry is in need of one union & one pilot group. With a pretty big split of 121/135/91 Frac stuff between ALPA and Teamsters w/ a couple on their own. Most seem to bash on IBT due to them not being pilots, however would it be a crazy idea for IBT to absorb ALPA? Let all the ALPA personal come onboard and run their own IBT 747 / IBT ALPA. This would merge all the IBT airlines w/ the ALPA airlines and help to complete the goal of one unified pilot group as only a few non-union / or own union airlines would be left.

Totally just brainstorming outloud w/ a couple :beer: in me.
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Why?
ALPA is a member of the AFL-CIO and IBT is not.
More airlines have ALPA then IBT easier to move a smaller number right?
 
Gonzo said:
Why?
ALPA is a member of the AFL-CIO and IBT is not.
More airlines have ALPA then IBT easier to move a smaller number right?
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Why is AFL-CIO such a big deal? I understand that more airlines are ALPA but I'm sure that that the IBT wouldn't be merged into ALPA. I thought maybe ALPA would go for being absorbed into the IBT but kind of stay their own branch (identity) . This thread is not meant to be flame-bait but an intelligent discussion. If it goes the other way I will ask the mod's to lock it & I'm sure they are more then willing to do so. Again, I may be totally off base but please educate me.
 
Being part of the AFL-CIO is HUGE. There is a lot of lobbying the AFL-CIO does and it is good to make sure our concerns are voiced through that.
 
I've been helped by ALPA and IBT, whether a member of that union or not.

I have also been screwed by ALPA and IBT, again, whether a member of that union or not.

I will say, the ALPA wins on the front of personal assistance to pilots.

IBT created holding company scope.

ALPA threw the PO scope under the bus to try to prevent the Atlas defection.

IBT...well, the whole RICO deal, among other things.

I could go on and on, but it'll end up in people refuting each point I have experienced first hand.

At the end of the day, the UNION is only as strong as the PILOT group.

I'd say UPS and AA do pretty good for in-house.
 
Polar742 said:
I'd say UPS and AA do pretty good for in-house.
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I am going to vehemently disagree with you here. :)

UPS yes, they do seem to do pretty good. However, the APA almost went bankrupt because of a lack of control.

The problem with in house unions is you don't have the resources of the larger entity. Furthermore, the staff doesn't answer to the larger entity in the end. It answers to those running the individual unit which can lead to large fines ala the APA.
 
Seggy said:
I am going to vehemently disagree with you here. :)
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I'm going to say, that's fine.

I remember when the whole APA grass roots sickout was going on, and had union feeds.

You just haven't been a union member long enough to be screwed yet.

Maybe you never will, which I hope is the case. However, in my experience, and all the guys I fly with that were 20+ year ALPA guys from Eastern, US, PanAm, United and various other places will probably disagree with you.
 
I am not saying ALPA is perfect or the end all to be all in this industry as well.

I had a good conversation a few months ago with the outgoing MEC Chair at FEDEX. He was talking how they were in house, went to ALPA, went back to in house and then back to ALPA and he was laying it out for me.
 
Seggy said:
I am not saying ALPA is perfect or the end all to be all in this industry as well.

I had a good conversation a few months ago with the outgoing MEC Chair at FEDEX. He was talking how they were in house, went to ALPA, went back to in house and then back to ALPA and he was laying it out for me.
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I don't believe Polar mentioned FDX
 
Seggy said:
Being part of the AFL-CIO is HUGE. There is a lot of lobbying the AFL-CIO does and it is good to make sure our concerns are voiced through that.
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I just did a tid bit of research on why the IBT broke off from the AFL-CIO and the new organization they created. My question is wouldn't it be more beneficial for ALPA to voice their concerns while lobbying instead of those of Medical Worker's, etc... This seems to be the argument that ALPA peeps have against Teamster peeps.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I don't believe Polar mentioned FDX
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I know that. What is your point in bringing this up?

jhugz said:
I just did a tid bit of research on why the IBT broke off from the AFL-CIO and the new organization they created. My question is wouldn't it be more beneficial for ALPA to voice their concerns while lobbying instead of those of Medical Worker's, etc... This seems to be the argument that ALPA peeps have against Teamster peeps.
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When ALPA talks to Congress they are lobbying for their members. A lot of the concerns we have as ALPA Members are the same concerns a nurse has.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I don't believe Polar mentioned FDX
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No, he didn't, but it was an example of an MEC realizing that being an in-house union wasn't all it was cracked up to be, so much so they ended up coming back to ALPA.

jhugz said:
I just did a tid bit of research on why the IBT broke off from the AFL-CIO and the new organization they created. My question is wouldn't it be more beneficial for ALPA to voice their concerns while lobbying instead of those of Medical Worker's, etc... This seems to be the argument that ALPA peeps have against Teamster peeps.
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Then tell me this, how much money does the IBT owe the AFL-CIO?
 
Seggy said:
I know that. What is your point in bringing this up?




When ALPA talks to Congress they are lobbying for their members. A lot of the concerns we have as ALPA Members are the same concerns a nurse has.
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How's this different from a farmer or construction worker? Not a skilled position or do you not believe in that whole Teamster's argument?
 
I liken this to the 200-hour wonder argument.

Someone gets schooled up on a subject, interacts with it for 12-18 months and they are experts. The people of varied walks of life with more experience under the system are suddenly dumbasses.

Experience allows practical application of knowledge.
 
I'd say two groups that move cargo under DOT rules, with a myriad of rest, certification and experience requirements probably have more in common than a group of pilots and nurses.

I think that was the point to be made.
 
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