The sky IS falling aka another atp article

[Beech90]

I can understand that. But there's nothing that stops the regional from hiring you as a potential candidate, giving you the ground required to take the written (they give this training already through INDOC), signing you off to take the written, and give you the ATP checkride.

IF there is a need for pilots, the regional will find a way of putting butts in the seats.

This too. Except maybe for Compass

 

[Max1594]

I can understand that. But there's nothing that stops the regional from hiring you as a potential candidate, giving you the ground required to take the written (they give this training already through INDOC), signing you off to take the written, and give you the ATP checkride.

IF there is a need for pilots, the regional will find a way of putting butts in the seats.

At least to me it looks like the new reg is worded to essentially make that the only way of having it done, sure it says it can be done through part 141 or 142, but as the article alludes to, what 141 school has the cash the buy a level-C sim..

 

[Beech90]

At least to me it looks like the new reg is worded to essentially make that the only way of having it done, sure it says it can be done through part 141 or 142, but as the article alludes to, what 141 school has the cash the buy a level-C sim..

141, 142, 135 and 121 can offer the course. The only way you cannot do it, is 61.

 

[Max1594]

141, 142, 135 and 121 can offer the course. The only way you cannot do it, is 61.

Probably could've worded my post better, but what I was trying to say is that the 121 and 135 programs are likely the only programs with the infrastructure in the place to provide it, in terms of having instructors meeting the criteria to teach the course, and having the sim time.

 

[Beech90]

Probably could've worded my post better, but what I was trying to say is that the 121 and 135 programs are likely the only programs with the infrastructure in the place to provide it.

Agreeded. 8 million dollars for a new sim. Most 141/142 cannot afford it. Even older sims are expensive.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

The Feds have utterly forgotten that there are transport category airplanes that weigh less than 40,000lb - some of which may be more, er, 'educational' than their heavier counterparts.

Oh well.

 

[Beech90]

The Feds have utterly forgotten that there are transport category airplanes that weigh less than 40,000lb - some of which may be more, er, 'educational' than their heavier counterparts.

Oh well.

I.E Dash8s, 1900's, Metros.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I.E Dash8s, 1900's, Metros.

 

[Beech90]

Butttt that's a prop plane. That's not a real plane.

 

[rwgb1984]

Stupid question time: How does this affect the Part 135/Part 91 operators out there? Never been inclined to head to the airlines but have also thought that it would be difficult to get into a Part 135 gig without the necessary turbine/multi time. Seems I may have over-simplified the progression by thinking that it would be possible to break into one of those jobs after a few years of instructing.

I guess at the end of the day, my plan of action will be:

 

[deadstick]

Does anybody expect that the authors of this pile of poo actually thought out the ramifications of this? This was a knee-jerk "He look what we did!" manuever. Of course only pilots at the airlines need an ATP.

 

[Richman]

I see this as a step back to the old ways of building blocks and baby steps to an airline job. I like it. The airline industry can throw the cash out to attract those already with the time and experience to the job. They are out there. No sympathy if it effects stock price, small airport service, or major feed. Perhaps a new breed of "commuter airlines", flying 402 like equipment of the old days, will step in to serve the smaller cities the regionals are forced to pull their RJ's out of.

Before my first 121, I CFIed, flew 135 single engine Grand Canyon tours, and flew 135 night freight. I'm firmly convinced I turned out a better airline pilot because of it.

This x1000.

The industry used to self regulate on this. CFI until 1200. Fly boxes/whatever until 1800. Get commuter job. Get 1000+ right seat time. Upgrade. Get better job. Lather, rinse, repeat.

At the end of the chute, you had a pilot with 5-7,000 hours who's been around the block several times over, and has had to deal with recalcitrant men and machines and making the big calls, all the while avoiding death, serious injury, bent metal, violation or termination (hopefully in that order).

Versus 190 hours, and watching the autopilot fly for 1300 hours, then getting thrown in the left seat.

THIS is the core misunderstanding that lowbies and MPL proponents miss. There is no greater motivator than saving your own skin, and those lessons are forever INGRAINED. I don't care how many hours in the 320 sim you have.

BUT, through whatever process, the industry thought it was cool to mess with what had been working for DECADES. We saw what happened next. As the industry could no longer regulate itself, the Feds stepped in.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Richman

 

[rwgb1984]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Richman

A new maxim to add to my list. I like it.

 

[mshunter]

If Airlines pass the buck to consumers what reason do we have not to believe they wont pass the training cost to pilots?

The regionals already do this. Haven't you seen first year pay? Hell, even second year pay?

 

[mshunter]

So many people are freaking out about all of this, and for what? This is how it used to be. When I saw that people were getting hired at airlines with 250hrs and a wet commercial certificate, I still CFI'ed, flew single pilot pax, sat in the right seat of Lears, did a short freight stint, and have just now gone to a regional. I may have showed up with my ATP, but a lot of guys and gals didn't. They got it with their initial training. The only thing that might change is the way the airlines do their training. What I mean by that, is now the indoc will be specifically indoc, the systems and "ATP written prep" will be split up, if need be.

This is seriously a non-issue that has a lot of "entitlement'ist" with their panties in a wad.

 

[z987k]

The only thing I don't like about it, is you need an ATP to do things outside the 121 realm to. Even with props... even with pistons, and they have very little to do with flying an RJ.

 

[ChasenSFO]

Meh, people don't think outside the box enough when it comes to time building. I don't even have my commercial yet and an SF ride sharing company wants to buy me a Cessna to do viral marketing for them. Having to come up with 1000TT+ to get to the airlines is nothing new. If you don't want to CFI, find another way to make money flying. Meet people, tell people what you want to do, and more importantly, find ways to turn your flying into money and publicity for other people. Just don't try it in the SF Bay Area or I'll bust your knee caps.

 

[AA34]

So many people are freaking out about all of this, and for what? This is how it used to be. When I saw that people were getting hired at airlines with 250hrs and a wet commercial certificate, I still CFI'ed, flew single pilot pax, sat in the right seat of Lears, did a short freight stint, and have just now gone to a regional. I may have showed up with my ATP, but a lot of guys and gals didn't. They got it with their initial training. The only thing that might change is the way the airlines do their training. What I mean by that, is now the indoc will be specifically indoc, the systems and "ATP written prep" will be split up, if need be.

This is seriously a non-issue that has a lot of "entitlement'ist" with their panties in a wad.

The article posted talks about the upcoming increase in cost of obtaining the ATP. Not the time it will take to get there.

In your defense you're probably confused with the other 47 threads here regarding the new 1500 rule!

 

[mshunter]

The article posted talks about the upcoming increase in cost of obtaining the ATP. Not the time it will take to get there.

In your defense you're probably confused with the other 47 threads here regarding the new 1500 rule!

I'm not confused at all. Go build your time, get hired by a 135 outfit, and let them pay for it. It's what I did. Worst case scenario, you might be on the hook for some weekend classes for ground school.

 

[deadstick]

There are fewer student (fewer available hours), and night freight is shriveling. I can see this law exasperating the students issue. Smart people (or their parents) will see the road ahead, the lack of a ROI, and take another path.