The Attack on the 2nd Amendment Continues

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JordanD said:
Sounds like pretty reasonable stuff to me.
They must have left out 1: ALL YER GUNS ARE BELONG TO US!!!!11!
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16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.

Seriously? You have no problem with your doctor asking you about your ownership of guns? Why stop there? Why not ask if you drive a car with 200 hp or more?

It's none of his business.
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.

Seriously? You have no problem with your doctor asking you about your ownership of guns? Why stop there? Why not ask if you drive a car with 200 hp or more?

It's none of his business.
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Before all the gun nuts get worked up, Im sure it would be along the lines of something like "if you're a gun owner, do you do so safely?" You answer: "yes". Then on to the next question.

Seriously people, take a chill pill. Yes, its probably ineffective as hell legislation, but Im sure doctors will know this too, and this is all that will be asked. In the pre-health assessment questionaires I get for my yearly military medical, this is exactly a question that is asked, and it's a simple yes or no.
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.

Seriously? You have no problem with your doctor asking you about your ownership of guns? Why stop there? Why not ask if you drive a car with 200 hp or more?

It's none of his business.
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It is no different than your G.P. asking about smoking or wearing your seat belt (or other common things that cause health issues, injuries or cause deaths). A: It is just one more reminder to people to be safe with their firearms, especially if they have children. B: You don't have to answer.
 
jtrain609 said:
That CAN be a reason, but it isn't always. Honestly it depends on the individual law, but more importantly, it likely depends on the area of law.

Where what you're saying can be true in criminal law, it isn't likely true with tax policy. Tax policy is just that; policy. It incentives people to make certain decisions in some ways, but also it's there to pay for our government broadly.

Is criminal law ALWAYS the same way? I'm not exactly sure. Some criminal law is old as dirt (murder, for example), while other parts of the criminal are retrospective and made recently, in that a heinous event is committed, we realize there is no law to punish that person, and then we create law after the fact.

So how about this: I always thought, and most pilots think, that the law is "THE LAW." It's black letter, bright line, binary, yes/no, good/bad, but that couldn't be further from the truth. There are many reasons, and many ways that we get to where we are in the ways that we chose to govern ourselves, and almost all rules have exceptions. Almost nothing about the law is, "It is this way because of X." There are almost always two answers, and in may situations more than two answers.

We get there because we have competing interests, and competing ideas for what self governance should look like in our society because very thankfully we ARE NOT all the same. There are those that think that if you steal you should be shot on the spot, and others that believe thieves should be rehabilitated. There are those that think metal illness is a cop out when it comes to sentencing, and there are those who think that non-mentally ill people simply don't commit crimes. Because of these drastically varying views, there are many legitimate answers to lots of tough questions.

Most importantly, there's no way to make things simple. It is impossible to make complex things simple, but that doesn't mean that you can't still eat the elephant one bite at a time.
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Well, in the interest of being "german" to a very narrow law- murder- is it improper to take the argument I made in the beginning and apply it to this new age AWB?
 
MikeD said:
Before all the gun nuts get worked up, Im sure it would be along the lines of something like "if you're a gun owner, do you do so safely?" You answer: "yes". Then on to the next question.
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Define "safe gun ownership".


Acadia said:
It is no different than your G.P. asking about smoking or wearing your seat belt (or other common things that cause health issues, injuries or cause deaths). A: It is just one more reminder to people to be safe with their firearms, especially if they have children. B: You don't have to answer.
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Smoking...proven to rot your lungs. Seat belt...proven to keep me from flying through the windshield (and is legally required in every state to be worn by at least front seat passengers).

Owning a gun... has no direct bearing on and has not been proven to be harmful to my health whatsoever, and therefore should be of no interest to my general practitioner.
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
Define "safe gun ownership".
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Theres nothing to define. Simply say yes and be done with the question, or say no and have to make it more ass pain than it needs to be.

I agree, it's ineffective and the doctor probably doesn't care to ask it anymore than you care to hear it. But it's likely only going to be in written form. So, you can argue the semantics of it and create problems for yourself, or you can check the box and have it never bother you for another year, even if you don't do anything safely.
 
Really, it doesn't even compel the doctor to ask, if you dont like the question find a new doctor, if you like the doc but think it is none of their business if you wear a seatbelt or own a firearm, tell them.

There are far bigger fish to fry here.

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Cazadores said:
There are far bigger fish to fry here.
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THIS is the point Im trying to make.

To the gun nuts: The gun grabbers have come up with this "doctor asks" thing which we all know is ineffective as hell. EXCEPT, for the gun grabbers, they think that they've "won one" and have done something effective and helping their cause.

So, would you rather grant them something ineffective like this, thus making them "feel" that they have a victory and shutting them down for at least awhile; or would you rather raise hell about it, thus proving to them that this isn't effective, so that they keep going after more?

Pick your battles.

And technique only: But coming unglued at the doctor required to ask such as question....whether in written form or verbal, as some have posted here, is poor technique.
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
Owning a gun... has no direct bearing on and has not been proven to be harmful to my health whatsoever, and therefore should be of no interest to my general practitioner.
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Maybe not your health, but I hope you are not denying accidents in the home with improperly stored firearms and kids etc. My understanding is that the record there has improved, but that is due to continued education. I see this initiative is just one more small part of that. This may not be terribly effective, but it doesn't restrict your right and you are not compelled to provide any information. Small issue; move on.
 
Seeing as how everyone makes it a point to make it well known they have guns I don't see what the issue is ;)
 
So now seeing that he hasn't tried to take away all of our guns, are gun inventories at stores finally going to slowly go back up? I've been trying to buy an M&P 9mm for a little while now and I can't seem to find one.
 
MikeD said:
Theres nothing to define. Simply say yes and be done with the question, or say no and have to make it more ass pain than it needs to be.

I agree, it's ineffective and the doctor probably doesn't care to ask it anymore than you care to hear it. But it's likely only going to be in written form. So, you can argue the semantics of it and create problems for yourself, or you can check the box and have it never bother you for another year, even if you don't do anything safely.
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MikeD said:
THIS is the point Im trying to make.

To the gun nuts: The gun grabbers have come up with this "doctor asks" thing which we all know is ineffective as hell. EXCEPT, for the gun grabbers, they think that they've "won one" and have done something effective and helping their cause.

So, would you rather grant them something ineffective like this, thus making them "feel" that they have a victory and shutting them down for at least awhile; or would you rather raise hell about it, thus proving to them that this isn't effective, so that they keep going after more?

Pick your battles.

And technique only: But coming unglued at the doctor required to ask such as question....whether in written form or verbal, as some have posted here, is poor technique.
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So you are completely willing to disregard a violation on privacy because you're sure no one will care? I know we rarely agree on much of anything, and that usually colors my readings of your posts, but the ABOVE is poor form. I don't care what you do in the military, the military is socially behind the rest of the USA measured in decades (I hear we aren't tossing gays out feet first anymore), and the military is a poor place for social experimentation so you have to lag behind- fine. Out here American's expect and some demand our privacy be maintained, some of us consider it a constitutional right, and there IS NO BETTER TIME to complain about this crap than when the laws are being made. That way we aren't spending years trying to undo something that is offensive and possibly infringing on my rights as an American.

Anyway, I know we see things different on this, but there's a lot of people that are offended as hell at the question.
 
jynxyjoe said:
So you are completely willing to disregard a violation on privacy because you're sure no one will care?
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Again, if anyone views this question from a doctor as an invasion of privacy, don't provide an answer. I could see the concern if a truthful response was mandated, but that does not appear to be the case. Of course if you want true privacy, never go to a doctor because just about anything your doc does could be construed a violating your privacy in some way.
 
jynxyjoe said:
So you are completely willing to disregard a violation on privacy because you're sure no one will care? I know we rarely agree on much of anything, and that usually colors my readings of your posts, but the ABOVE is poor form. I don't care what you do in the military, the military is socially behind the rest of the USA measured in decades (I hear we aren't tossing gays out feet first anymore), and the military is a poor place for social experimentation so you have to lag behind- fine. Out here American's expect and some demand our privacy be maintained, some of us consider it a constitutional right, and there IS NO BETTER TIME to complain about this crap than when the laws are being made. That way we aren't spending years trying to undo something that is offensive and possibly infringing on my rights as an American.

Anyway, I know we see things different on this, but there's a lot of people that are offended as hell at the question.
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Then be offended. And raise holy hell. I really don't care. And see what problems it will potentially cause. OR, se the bigger picture and grant the gun grabbers something that they "think" is a victory but is really not, and get them off your back.

Which do you want? A totally ineffective law that does nothing, or the grabbers to go after serious stuff that will be much more difficult to defend against potentially?
 
Mark815 said:
So now seeing that he hasn't tried to take away all of our guns, are gun inventories at stores finally going to slowly go back up? I've been trying to buy an M&P 9mm for a little while now and I can't seem to find one.
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Good luck.

I finally managed to find 4 boxes of 9 MM ammo. .380 ACP jumped up about 4 bucks in less than 10 days at the local wally world. Some maroons spread a rumor that wally world is no longer going to be stocking ammo once the shelves are emptied. :(
 
Acadia said:
Again, if anyone views this question from a doctor as an invasion of privacy, don't provide an answer. I could see the concern if a truthful response was mandated, but that does not appear to be the case. Of course if you want true privacy, never go to a doctor because just about anything your doc does could be construed a violating your privacy in some way.
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Sure he can fondle my balls and tell me to cough, but I'll be DAMNED if I tell him I have a gun or not.
 
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