Thank You Glenn Beck!!!!

aloft said:
There are exceptions to every rule, but they're just that--exceptions. And as you said, they are few.

Nice try, though. Really. :sarcasm:
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Dunno, bro.

I'd say that the majority of the captains I fly with on the CRJ and an even larger number on the EMB have been here for over 25 years.

Before that, they flew Part 91 or Part 135 and were HIRED with more than 5000 hours.....25 years ago.

Our senior captains are most definitely the exception, but I wouldn't classify them as a "few."
 
aloft said:
"The captain of the regional jet
you're flying in today
isn't even qualified to be a co-pilot
on the 757 you flew in yesterday. ​

Still happy you saved $70 on your ticket?"​
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What an SIC type? If you are a CA of an RJ you have atleast 1500 hours and an ATP usually more. Also no one saves money with RJ's. Name a discount carrier using RJ's soley??? Exactly! All that flying is subsidized by mainline. I'm willing to bet almost every RJ CA meets or exceeds most majors hiring mins. I'm only a saab ca and I have minimum double every majors min quals.
 
Just finished watching Bill Maher's show on HBO, and he covered this topic too. His comment? "$20,000? That's like a 'do you want fries with that' kind of salary!" Glad that this is starting to get out there, but I don't think it will do any good.
 
It won't do any good.

Aunt Bessie only gives a damn about whether or not she can save $10 on her flight to Podunk.
 
ready2fly said:
Dunno, bro.

I'd say that the majority of the captains I fly with on the CRJ and an even larger number on the EMB have been here for over 25 years.

Before that, they flew Part 91 or Part 135 and were HIRED with more than 5000 hours.....25 years ago.

Our senior captains are most definitely the exception, but I wouldn't classify them as a "few."
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Relatively speaking, regional captains that equal line-holding 757 FOs at the mainline carriers in terms of experience are few and far between. There are exceptions of course, but they're all "lifers" at places like Eagle, Horizon and SkyWest. I seriously doubt you'll find more than a handful, if any, at places like Mesa, Colgan, Mesaba or Piedmont.

So ON AVERAGE, the statement is true.
 
The only reason you can make those statements aloft is there isn't a shortage at the mainline level, yet.
Right now they haven't been forced to lower their "competitive minimums" to attract pilots. If there was a shortage at the mainline level and their competitive minimums matched their published then you'd see the qualifications match up between even regional FOs and mainline FOs.

Also as far as your mainline FO before regional captain scenario, would you want a 4,000 hour 737 co-pilot go fly a RJ as a Captain in an airplane that he has no time in?

Cheers to Beck for at least getting this topic out there. Unfortunetly with the industry cycle there is very little time where everyone out there is hurting for pilots. It's during this brief time where pilots have the most leverage to gain higher wages. I know at our company we had this period of time last year and were able to get a little out of our company. Looks like the most recent cycle is coming to a end so here's to hoping for when the hiring boom starts up again.
 
wheelsup said:
I'm not defending the low quals to get into an RJ/commuter-what-have-you but the fact of the matter is FO's share very little responsibility.

Realistically the PIC in the photo plane has much more responsibility on their shoulders than the FO flying the RJ.

The age shouldn't have anything to do with it. I met a US Air guy who was hired at 21 into mainline equipment, just as there are mid-30's guys in new hire classes at the regionals.
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That is true, and it also means that the Captain has to play flight instructor for the inexperienced FO that the airline placed in the right seat. And with someone playing the role of Captain and Flight Instructor at the same time, the first factor in an accident starts rolling. Now add on some bad weather, reduced rest, and a 16 hour duty day ...
 
PCL_128 said:
Just finished watching Bill Maher's show on HBO, and he covered this topic too. His comment? "$20,000? That's like a 'do you want fries with that' kind of salary!" Glad that this is starting to get out there, but I don't think it will do any good.
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Actually he said "Do you want fries with that landing?" :)
 
aloft said:
Relatively speaking, regional captains that equal line-holding 757 FOs at the mainline carriers in terms of experience are few and far between. There are exceptions of course, but they're all "lifers" at places like Eagle, Horizon and SkyWest. I seriously doubt you'll find more than a handful, if any, at places like Mesa, Colgan, Mesaba or Piedmont.

So ON AVERAGE, the statement is true.
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Mesaba has probably the highest time CA's next to Eagle or Horizon out there. Yes there are some street hires , but you forget that last spring the upgrade was 7 years. There is only about 80 of our 500 CA's that havent been here for 7 years plus. I would put the average....average.... Saab CA at 5000 TT. When is the last time Piedmont upgraded? Years ago....So what do you think about the TT of those CA's? I would say pretty high. Maybe you would be in a better position to speak about airlines if you flew for one. Don't generalize if you don't know what you are talking about. Stick to cessna's.
 
aloft said:
Relatively speaking, regional captains that equal line-holding 757 FOs at the mainline carriers in terms of experience are few and far between. There are exceptions of course, but they're all "lifers" at places like Eagle, Horizon and SkyWest. I seriously doubt you'll find more than a handful, if any, at places like Mesa, Colgan, Mesaba or Piedmont.

So ON AVERAGE, the statement is true.
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We have lifers and experienced CA's at Colgan. I've even flown with a Beech CA who used to fly for Pan Am.
 
mikecweb said:
Unfortunetly with the industry cycle there is very little time where everyone out there is hurting for pilots. It's during this brief time where pilots have the most leverage to gain higher wages. I know at our company we had this period of time last year and were able to get a little out of our company. Looks like the most recent cycle is coming to a end so here's to hoping for when the hiring boom starts up again.
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:yeahthat:

It was lovely seeing people leaving my company going to the majors and fractionals for the brief hiring boom. Movement is good.
 
I think the overall message about people being appalled about the level of compensation is valid. However, when heels hit the dirt, Glen Beck, Grandma and our neighbors across the street are going to book the cheapest price that shows up on Orbitz regardless of if the pilots are flying for ridiculously low wages or industry-leading compensation.

The ONLY savior we have is ourselves.
 
Doug Taylor said:
I think the overall message about people being appalled about the level of compensation is valid. However, when heels hit the dirt, Glen Beck, Grandma and our neighbors across the street are going to book the cheapest price that shows up on Orbitz regardless of if the pilots are flying for ridiculously low wages or industry-leading compensation.

The ONLY savior we have is ourselves.
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Amen!

Look, I WORK for an airline. And my wife - when she flies for business - uses Orbitz to get the cheapest ticket possible. Doesn't matter if it's on my airline (or it's mother ship) or another one.

It's all about saving $$$.

.
 
Doug Taylor said:
The ONLY savior we have is ourselves.
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Exactly.

And yet this thread is full of people trying to make management's case, just so they can be "right on the internet". :rolleyes: So you won your point, but we all lost. Happy?

Fine. So there are a lot of regional lifers with lots of experience. But do you think those guys are off the hook here? Hardly. If they're so eminently qualified, they have lowered the bar for the profession at large by NOT leaving for better pay elsewhere. (And save the whole "but...but....schedules! seniority! quality of life!" argument, those are all "ME! ME! ME!" statements and aren't helping matters.)

The writer for FORTUNE said it himself: "Well, the lucky thing is, we kept a lot of the great pilots. Even though they`re making 20 percent less than they were making a couple of years ago, these guys..." Though I realize that refers mostly to mainline pilots, the message is the same: "management, you can keep the pay as low as you want, we're not going anywhere."

Bottom line, everyone who CAN leave the regionals for better paying jobs SHOULD. Those who don't are only enabling management to keep the bar nice and low.
 
Many of these highly qualified "lifers" are hard-working union volunteers that strive to improve the lives of their fellow pilots at the commuters. I always recommend that everyone leave the regionals as quickly as possible to move on to the majors, but it's not for everyone. To say that they're "lowering the bar" simply for deciding to make a career out of a commuter airline is ridiculous.
 
Why not? By staying, they're accepting the unacceptable. And don't think this is lost on management, who I'm sure have observed, "if our pay and work rules were so unacceptable, they'd leave; they haven't left, so our pay and work rules must not be so unacceptable after all".
 
aloft said:
Why not? By staying, they're accepting the unacceptable. And don't think this is lost on management, who I'm sure have observed, "if our pay and work rules were so unacceptable, they'd leave; they haven't left, so our pay and work rules must not be so unacceptable after all".
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The top guys at most of the big regional make 100K -150K and only work 9-12 days. How is that accepting the unacceptable?
 
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