Thank You Glenn Beck!!!!

Honestly, I don't think that's the case. Universally, at least. As I said, part of Beck's commentary was "I don't care if you cut meals, drinks, or even flight attendants--heck, have a baggage handler come in and show me how to put my oxygen mask on--you can cut costs on those things, JUST NOT THE PILOTS!! And he repeated that refrain. Twice.

And maybe it will take some scare tactics and some self deprecation. How bout this:

_750864_pilot_150.jpg


He could be making more money working
as an assistant manager at Taco Bell.

Are you sure you trust his judgment?​
 
wheelsup said:
The problem with that statement is it's just not true. What qualifications do you need to be in the right seat of a 757? A commercial multi-instrument and an SIC type.
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Show me a single 757 FO with only those qualifications. I double-dog-dare you.

wheelsup said:
And pointing out or even inferring that the regionals/commuters hire at unsafe levels opens up a huge can of worms that will get the airlines legal departments attention pronto.
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And maybe that's exactly the can of worms that needs to be opened in order to fix the problem.
 
Velocipede said:
That's exactly the problem. Until the pool of pilots willing to fly for welfare wages dries up, pilot pay will remain exactly where it is OR deteriorate.

Pilots. We're our own worst enemy.
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Considering that people will PAY to get put in the left seat of a pax carrying operation, the pool of pilots willing to fly at welfare wages will never dry up.

Personally, I am just going to skip airlines for now.

aloft said:
_750864_pilot_150.jpg


He could be making more money working
as an assistant manager at Taco Bell.

Are you sure you trust his judgment?​
Click to expand...

LOL

I am going to print this and hang it in the office.
 
aloft said:
Show me a single 757 FO with only those qualifications. I double-dog-dare you.
Click to expand...

I can't, and you know that. That doesn't make your statement valid however.

And maybe that's exactly the can of worms that needs to be opened in order to fix the problem.
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What problem? How many people have been killed in the past 5 years due to low time pilots at the airlines? Until we start killing people nothing will change.
 
wheelsup said:
I can't, and you know that. That doesn't make your statement valid however.
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Sure it does. You're talking only the legal qualifications necessary, but the de facto requirements are those necessary to get the job--which for virtually all airlines means an ATP, over 1000 hrs turbine PIC time, and several years seniority at a mainline carrier.
 
aloft said:
Show me a single 757 FO with only those qualifications. I double-dog-dare you.
Click to expand...

Actually, I can show you more than one. About three off the top of my head. All hired at age 24-26 with a Commercial AMEL Instrument certificate by Continental Airlines, and put into the right seat of the B737 and B757/B767 immediately. I am positive there is more than the three I know about, too.

All these pilots will gain their ATP rating when they go for upgrade at a legacy carrier. Those who went to the B757/B767 will get their ATP and their first type rating in an airplane they never even flew: The B737.

I am currently captain on an RJ, and I hold a type rating in the B737. As far as the FAA is concerned, I am qualified to fly in the left seat on that aircraft. So your statement, "The captain of the regional jet you're flying in today isn't even qualified to be a co-pilot on the 757 you flew in yesterday" really isn't true. Like I said, in the eyes of the FAA, I am qualified to be PIC on the B737. That does not mean I'm truly ready to hold that position, however.

I wonder what Glenn Beck thinks of the starting pay rates at all the mainline carriers?
 
As I acknowledged to wheelsup, you're correct as far as the FAA is concerned, but the FAA doesn't hire pilots, airlines do.

The crux of the issue isn't really qualifications, of course; it's pay. If the qualifications are the same, why isn't the pay? And if we can fuel a perception in the public's mind that "you get what you pay for, and here's what the regionals are paying", maybe enough Glenn Becks out there will create an uproar. One can only hope.

It certainly isn't productive to argue the airlines' case, tho.
 
One issue with your argument "you get what you pay for", while I completely agree, is what sort of hard facts do you equate to the public? Total time? Total PIC? Of course the mainline guys are more experienced. Does that mean they are safer? Yes probably but what facts do you have to back that up? Do they crash less? Do they kill less people?
 
aloft said:
"The captain of the regional jet
you're flying in today
isn't even qualified to be a co-pilot
 on the 757 you flew in yesterday.

Still happy you saved $70 on your ticket?"

​
Click to expand...

You're wrong.

Most RJ CA's are more than capable to fly their equipment or bigger.

I have no doubt that I could successfully pass 757 ground school/sim and fly it professionally. I'm a SAAB FO. Why? Because I'm a good pilot who learns quickly. Now that doesn't mean I deserve the job...

Nevertheless, your above comment is just not correct.
 
SmitteyB said:
You're wrong.

Most RJ CA's are more than capable to fly their equipment or bigger.

I have no doubt that I could successfully pass 757 ground school/sim and fly it professionally. I'm a SAAB FO. Why? Because I'm a good pilot who learns quickly. Now that doesn't mean I deserve the job...
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Not really the point, but....if that is true, why aren't you flying 757s? Because no 757 operator considers you qualified. And in the final analysis, theirs is the only relevant opinion.

Look, before the rest of you jump in to falsely defend the honor of RJ captains everywhere, the point is that there is no significant difference between flying for a regional and flying for a mainline carrier; the difference in compensation is highly artificial. The problem is, airline pilots see this as justifying raising RJ rates to rates more in line with what mainline guys make, and airline management sees it as justifying lowering mainline rates to rates more in line with what regional guys make.
 
I think the difference is that you require to fly part 121, as per the FAA, a commercial, instrument, multi-engine rating and pass a 121 checkride and successfully complete IOE in order to flight as SIC. That's qualification.

Realistically speaking, even though the quals listed above satisfy the FAA, the market is of such that airlines that fly 757s generally wants much more experience.

There are more guys than you'd imagine at my airline that when they're upgrading to captain and doing their type rating, are also conducting their first ATP checkride.
 
I recently flew with an FO that had spent 8 YEARS in the right seat of the CRJ, more than I've been learning to fly. He was certainly qualified to be in any major airline seat.
 
Doug Taylor said:
There are more guys than you'd imagine at my airline that when they're upgrading to captain and doing their type rating, are also conducting their first ATP checkride.
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I don't doubt it, but I'd guess they're mostly military...? Getting turbine PIC the civilian route usually (but not always) requires an ATP.
 
I'm not sure, we're all civilian pilots now! ;)

Believe me, I know what you're trying to say, but it's just a wee bit different when it comes to basic, minimum FAA-blessed qualifications and the realistic amount of experience that an operator is looking for.
 
It causes a much higher work load for the CA when you have low time guys that have a myopic view of the cockpit to no fault of their own. If you have less than a 1,000 hours you have less than a 1,000 hours period.
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I didn't realize there was such a "Golden Road" and less workload on part of the CA when we hit 1,000 hours......guess I've been out in the woods for too long. What do I get when I hit 5,000 TT?
 
I didn't realize there was such a "Golden Road" and less workload on part of the CA when we hit 1,000 hours......guess I've been out in the woods for too long. What do I get when I hit 5,000 TT?
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A tshirt and a flight sticker! ;)

Nah, I think it all depends on the pilot.

I think I was sharper when I had fewer hours but had less confidence in my skills. However now I'm not as sharp but I have greater confidence in my skills.

Maybe it's just my imagination, I don't know. I don't even worry about it. Go to work , make the donuts, layover, eat, drink, fly back. Rinse, repeat.
 
I hate to say this, but that 21 year old pilot is apparently doing something since they aren't crashing left and right
 
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