Thank goodness Bye, Bye UND soon enough!

I see, so hurry up, go pick one up today since you already paid for it. Just explain you never picked it up and were ordered to pick it up for class......then drop it when before you return:rawk:
 
PGT said:
Not being challenged enough can lead to a low class grade, trust me. I've had super easy classes where I was bored out of my mind and managed to get a lower grade than usual.
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lol.....I failed Aviation Orientation. Go figure.
 
AngelFuree said:
Ha. Well...I complained about UND for different reasons than you. I guess I didn't complain as much about the school as I did the town. Grand Forks is a piece.
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Grand Forks is a typical Dakotan town. It has what you need and not much more, and in fact, it has a lot more than the majority of Nodak or Sodak. It's not a great city, nor are many of the Dakotan cities, but if you can enjoy yourself there you'll be able to adapt to many other places throughout the U.S. which could lead to potential jobs. Personally, the place I work, we much prefer to hire North and South Dakotans for this reason... people complain too much who aren't from up here. Adaptability will make you much more marketable in aviation. Sometimes it may mean finding inner-peace in owning a grill, drinking canned beer, and reading a good book (my night).
 
gomntwins said:
Grand Forks is a typical Dakotan town. It has what you need and not much more, and in fact, it has a lot more than the majority of Nodak or Sodak. It's not a great city, nor are many of the Dakotan cities, but if you can enjoy yourself there you'll be able to adapt to many other places throughout the U.S. which could lead to potential jobs. Personally, the place I work, we much prefer to hire North and South Dakotans for this reason... people complain too much who aren't from up here. Adaptability will make you much more marketable in aviation. Sometimes it may mean finding inner-peace in owning a grill, drinking canned beer, and reading a good book (my night).
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I do, but I really enjoy it a lot better at home where there are trees and lakes and hills to look at while doing that :beer:
 
challenger said:
I do, but I really enjoy it a lot better at home where there are trees and lakes and hills to look at while doing that :beer:
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I know. We all have places we want to live. That's not my point though. Unfortunately, for most people, aviation is a lifestyle choice and not just a job. In most careers you can find a job where you want (within reason), but this career that doesn't always work, and seldom does for long periods of time. How many people do you see at the moment that are willing to move anywhere for a flying job? A lot. This is a career where adadptabilty will help you out in the long run. If you don't like the education UND is offering, fine. But, I can almost guarantee that to keep a flying job you'll have to move to a place you don't much want to (the current town I'm living in I'm not a fan of... but I picked up a few hobbies and now enjoy my time). If you learn to adapt to cultures/states/areas that you wouldn't normally like aviation will go a lot better for you. You'll learn it's all about the airplanes and not the location, unfortunately.
 
The last 3 pages in this thread demonstrate exactly what is wrong with America today. Too many people feel they are entitled to everything in life, and aren't willing to work hard and take responsibility for their own actions. If you don't like UND for whatever reason you can think up to help yourself sleep at night and distract you from the fact that UND isn't your real problem, that's fine. But as a former UND grad who was never fond of the town or weather or some of the classes I attended, let me give you some advice I learned during my time there, and in the industry afterwards:

Nobody out there gives a damn about you...Yep, I said it. NOBODY! And the only people that ever will are your family and those who you can make long lasting personal connections with. Everyone else is your competition, and only YOU have the power to change that. If you just sit back, let things happen, and expect that everything is going to be ok and life will turn out great- your screwed. If you want something to happen in life, you have to make it happen- and excuses don't make things happen. I have read many of your other posts, all of which usually have some kind of negative spin on them. To sit here and post on a forum about your problems and how everyone else is doing everything wrong only proves my point. If the classes at UND were too easy, then you should have gotten an A and have a 4.0 right now. Maybe instead of sitting there wondering why and complaining that you had to learn a checklist verbatim as it is written, you should have just kept your mouth shut and done it. Did you ever stop to think that you have less than 10 hours in a plane and the only people that have less knowledge than you are the ones that are going to be taking your 102 class next semester? And don't think for one second that 530 posts on some forum makes up for actual experience. To think, you want to be in the AF too. You think they will tolerate the kind of crap you post on here about learning, not being challenged enough, and what is wrong with the way everyone else is doing things? They'll laugh you right out the front door for thinking you are better than them and wont even give you the courtesy of saying, "don't let the door hit you in the ass".

So, here is my point: UND is not your problem. My friend, you are setting yourself up for failure, not only in this industry, but also in life if you continue your way of thinking. Every time you get that feeling in the back of your mind that you are entitled to something just remember- no one gives a damn about you. If you want something done, you'll have to do it yourself through hard work, dedication, and the realization that NOTHING in life is ever given to you- only earned.

So good luck at whatever it is you decide to do- really I honestly meant it. But when things still aren't going your way, come back and read through this thread and you will know why.

And that one sir, is free of charge! You've earned it...
 
Well put sir, that is certainly a nominee for Post of the Year Award in this forum.

I was born and raised a city kid and I toughed out my four years in GF. While there were times that made me question my decision, looking back I wouldn't change anything. There is no question the town lacks in many areas, but don't be so quick to judge the actual people that call it home. I got involved in the community through youth sports and met some of the most caring and genuine people that I have ever encountered.

Although I do not (and have no desire to) fly for a living, I still make the aviation industry my career. I can say without a doubt I would not be where I am today without the friends and connections that I made at UND.

Saying that makes me the minority on this forum, but I think you'll find I'm in the majority of the Aerospace Alums as a whole.
 
Gunnar971 said:
The last 3 pages in this thread demonstrate exactly what is wrong with America today. Too many people feel they are entitled to everything in life, and aren't willing to work hard and take responsibility for their own actions. If you don't like UND for whatever reason you can think up to help yourself sleep at night and distract you from the fact that UND isn't your real problem, that's fine. But as a former UND grad who was never fond of the town or weather or some of the classes I attended, let me give you some advice I learned during my time there, and in the industry afterwards:

Nobody out there gives a damn about you...Yep, I said it. NOBODY! And the only people that ever will are your family and those who you can make long lasting personal connections with. Everyone else is your competition, and only YOU have the power to change that. If you just sit back, let things happen, and expect that everything is going to be ok and life will turn out great- your screwed. If you want something to happen in life, you have to make it happen- and excuses don't make things happen. I have read many of your other posts, all of which usually have some kind of negative spin on them. To sit here and post on a forum about your problems and how everyone else is doing everything wrong only proves my point. If the classes at UND were too easy, then you should have gotten an A and have a 4.0 right now. Maybe instead of sitting there wondering why and complaining that you had to learn a checklist verbatim as it is written, you should have just kept your mouth shut and done it. Did you ever stop to think that you have less than 10 hours in a plane and the only people that have less knowledge than you are the ones that are going to be taking your 102 class next semester? And don't think for one second that 530 posts on some forum makes up for actual experience. To think, you want to be in the AF too. You think they will tolerate the kind of crap you post on here about learning, not being challenged enough, and what is wrong with the way everyone else is doing things? They'll laugh you right out the front door for thinking you are better than them and wont even give you the courtesy of saying, "don't let the door hit you in the ass".

So, here is my point: UND is not your problem. My friend, you are setting yourself up for failure, not only in this industry, but also in life if you continue your way of thinking. Every time you get that feeling in the back of your mind that you are entitled to something just remember- no one gives a damn about you. If you want something done, you'll have to do it yourself through hard work, dedication, and the realization that NOTHING in life is ever given to you- only earned.

So good luck at whatever it is you decide to do- really I honestly meant it. But when things still aren't going your way, come back and read through this thread and you will know why.

And that one sir, is free of charge! You've earned it...
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What a great post. Hopefully the OP will read it. :clap:
 
challenger said:
Well it is pretty much official, I will not be returning to UND next semester. It has just gotten to the point where I asked myself "You know I am not achieving my goals here, so why I am I still here?"

It may work for people that have endless pockets but not for me, it is probably a good thing I have not been able to get the loans to pay for flying. I will not be in debt, and I am getting back on track to achieve what I set out to achieve in the first place. I will just go to a college closer to home and fly at an FBO for half of the price.

UND could have kept me here, but the faculty has shown time in and time out that they care more about numbers then individual success.

The class structure in my 102 class was horrible, no one should pay a penny for such an inept teacher. When a person has to literally teach themselves subject matter there is no point in going to a more expensive college (with flight costs). I know there are some and let me emphasize SOME good teachers here but I unfortunately did not end up with one.

So to anyone prospectively looking at UND, my suggestion to you would be do not come here. If you feel that you want to anyways then, ask yourself these questions

1. Are you ready to have to deal with administrators messing up your financial aid or whatever else they can possibly screw up. (trust me they will find a way and you will have to go to 5 different offices to figure out what they messed up and how to fix it)

2. Are you ready to pay for required classes that do not challenge you intellectually (mostly on the general education side)

3. To live in a ugly area of the country that should no be inhabited.

4. To pay top dollar for not only a worthless degree

5. To be a human Popsicle for 4 months of the year. (This is coming from a person from Minnesota, this is the first time in my life I have been too cold)

6. To be charged for worthless things such as the Aviation Laptop and have aerospace administrators be totally inflexible to working out a different solution. (I am sure they will find another way to charge people for something they do not need)

7. To deal with bad weather and UND making the decision if you can fly or not. I.E not getting real world experience that may one day save your life. (of course there are certain times when you should be weathered, I have however seen some questionable calls for no fly)

8. If you are looking for a hands on program this is not it.

9. To learn to fly like a robot by using ridiculous checklists on a flippin' Piper Warrior



Do not worry the door will not hit me on the way out, I will make sure to kick it out as I leave :bandit:
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I have to address this one statment of yours, mundane checklists are how we do it in Professional aviation, whether corporate or 121, you need to adjust your attitude on this if you will be looking to a career in 121, or pax carrying 135. Flying the same way standardized is not being a robot, and using those checklists will save your life or the lives of your customers someday, so remember that. Doing it in a warrior or 172 is a good solid foundation.
 
Gunnar971 said:
The last 3 pages in this thread demonstrate exactly what is wrong with America today. Too many people feel they are entitled to everything in life, and aren't willing to work hard and take responsibility for their own actions. If you don't like UND for whatever reason you can think up to help yourself sleep at night and distract you from the fact that UND isn't your real problem, that's fine. But as a former UND grad who was never fond of the town or weather or some of the classes I attended, let me give you some advice I learned during my time there, and in the industry afterwards:

Nobody out there gives a damn about you...Yep, I said it. NOBODY! And the only people that ever will are your family and those who you can make long lasting personal connections with. Everyone else is your competition, and only YOU have the power to change that. If you just sit back, let things happen, and expect that everything is going to be ok and life will turn out great- your screwed. If you want something to happen in life, you have to make it happen- and excuses don't make things happen. I have read many of your other posts, all of which usually have some kind of negative spin on them. To sit here and post on a forum about your problems and how everyone else is doing everything wrong only proves my point. If the classes at UND were too easy, then you should have gotten an A and have a 4.0 right now. Maybe instead of sitting there wondering why and complaining that you had to learn a checklist verbatim as it is written, you should have just kept your mouth shut and done it. Did you ever stop to think that you have less than 10 hours in a plane and the only people that have less knowledge than you are the ones that are going to be taking your 102 class next semester? And don't think for one second that 530 posts on some forum makes up for actual experience. To think, you want to be in the AF too. You think they will tolerate the kind of crap you post on here about learning, not being challenged enough, and what is wrong with the way everyone else is doing things? They'll laugh you right out the front door for thinking you are better than them and wont even give you the courtesy of saying, "don't let the door hit you in the ass".

So, here is my point: UND is not your problem. My friend, you are setting yourself up for failure, not only in this industry, but also in life if you continue your way of thinking. Every time you get that feeling in the back of your mind that you are entitled to something just remember- no one gives a damn about you. If you want something done, you'll have to do it yourself through hard work, dedication, and the realization that NOTHING in life is ever given to you- only earned.

So good luck at whatever it is you decide to do- really I honestly meant it. But when things still aren't going your way, come back and read through this thread and you will know why.

And that one sir, is free of charge! You've earned it...
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Bravo!!!!!! :clap::clap::clap::clap:I must say that this post summed up everything that I have ever tried to post on this forum. Well done sir, well done.

motormadness24 said:
What a great post. Hopefully the OP will read it. :clap:
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Oh he'll read it, and so will all the other whiners on here. Will it do any good........nope. They are gonna come on and say "I dont expect anything from anybody, but I deserve to have a job cause I am sweet at flying and took the acro course at UND. Not only did UND screw me but I have 500 hrs (or 15 as in the case of the OP) so that makes me an expert on flying." Get ready for it.
 
Shame! Most people think there is something wrong with education and educators in America, today. Unfortunately, as we can see here, the problem lies with the attitude the students bring to the class.

Clearly this man is going far in life.... good luck to him.
 
The last 3 pages in this thread demonstrate exactly what is wrong with America today. Too many people feel they are entitled to everything in life, and aren't willing to work hard and take responsibility for their own actions. If you don't like UND for whatever reason you can think up to help yourself sleep at night and distract you from the fact that UND isn't your real problem, that's fine. But as a former UND grad who was never fond of the town or weather or some of the classes I attended, let me give you some advice I learned during my time there, and in the industry afterwards:

Nobody out there gives a damn about you...Yep, I said it. NOBODY! And the only people that ever will are your family and those who you can make long lasting personal connections with. Everyone else is your competition, and only YOU have the power to change that. If you just sit back, let things happen, and expect that everything is going to be ok and life will turn out great- your screwed. If you want something to happen in life, you have to make it happen- and excuses don't make things happen. I have read many of your other posts, all of which usually have some kind of negative spin on them. To sit here and post on a forum about your problems and how everyone else is doing everything wrong only proves my point. If the classes at UND were too easy, then you should have gotten an A and have a 4.0 right now. Maybe instead of sitting there wondering why and complaining that you had to learn a checklist verbatim as it is written, you should have just kept your mouth shut and done it. Did you ever stop to think that you have less than 10 hours in a plane and the only people that have less knowledge than you are the ones that are going to be taking your 102 class next semester? And don't think for one second that 530 posts on some forum makes up for actual experience. To think, you want to be in the AF too. You think they will tolerate the kind of crap you post on here about learning, not being challenged enough, and what is wrong with the way everyone else is doing things? They'll laugh you right out the front door for thinking you are better than them and wont even give you the courtesy of saying, "don't let the door hit you in the ass".

So, here is my point: UND is not your problem. My friend, you are setting yourself up for failure, not only in this industry, but also in life if you continue your way of thinking. Every time you get that feeling in the back of your mind that you are entitled to something just remember- no one gives a damn about you. If you want something done, you'll have to do it yourself through hard work, dedication, and the realization that NOTHING in life is ever given to you- only earned.

So good luck at whatever it is you decide to do- really I honestly meant it. But when things still aren't going your way, come back and read through this thread and you will know why.

And that one sir, is free of charge! You've earned it...
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I pretty much only read these forums, but this post made me want to say that this is by far the best post that I have ever seen. If only EVERBODY can read this. It not only applies to aviation, but also to life in general.
I will say it once again, tests do not provide real learning, the average person usually studies for a test temporarily absorbs the information and and forgets 75% of it after a week. That is why tests are not the best way to provide grades. They do not promote lifelong learning, and basing an entire grade off of tests is only testing a persons short term memory abilities.
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Good luck finding any university that shares the same opinion as you do
As far as my issue with their checklists, I feel that some of it is unnecessary on such a small aircraft and that it deters from learning needed flying skills. As a person gets the flow down, I am sure it will help speed it up, but it really makes me nervous when I am close to being in the trafic pattern and I have my instructor having me do large unnecessary checklists when I should really be focused outside of the plane. (it might just be me on that one, who knows)
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I don't get it? A flow in the traffic pattern takes no longer than 2 seconds. Sure you need to verify it with the checklist, but the whole process takes no longer than 5 seconds.
All I can say to people is have fun at your pilot mill. You WILL just be a number at UND.
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You're absolutely right. I'm sure the Air Force will be the same. They will care about your feelings and needs right?
Oh well, I like airplanes and am a natural pilot and I am leaving!
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I'd like all the part 141 haters to read this one carefully. You think UND students think they're better than everyone else? Here is a person who not only thinks that, but thinks they are also better than UND itself.
tried to make the best of UND, but being halfway through 102 this semester and not making adequate progress towards my goals has caused me to pull the plug.
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That just threw your credibility right out the window. Halfway through 102 and you quit saying UND is worthless. I would understand if you would have said that the large training environment just wasn't for you, but this is ridiculous.
8. If you are looking for a hands on program this is not it.
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Another thing I just don't understand. You are flying airplanes. You can utilize free mentor trainers to practice. You can access the ramp at anytime to go into any airplane and understand what you are really looking for in a checklist item. You can even access any hanger at anytime to take a cowling off and learn about system components. The mechanics (or your flight instructor for that matter) would be happy to help you learn. How can UND be more hands on? Give us some examples.
10. To be surrounded by guys and only guys in your classes.
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Go to an FBO and say "Excuse me, does your flight school have girls? Because that's what I'm looking for"
I am sure much more eventful then my 6 logged hours in North Dakota
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6 HOURS!!!! 6 Hours at UND and you think you've experienced it all?
 
I see that people like to come on here and flame, whatever you either have a good experience or you don't at UND, then afterwords see if you can get a job that will pay enough to live in this industry when you have 1500 dollars a month in student loan payments to pay.

I have not succeeded at UND, some of that is my fault, the other part lies on what I feel has been teaching that HAS NOT BEEN WORTH WHAT I AM PAYING FOR IT. I have been at UND for 3 semesters I do not think I am being at all premature by pulling the plug. From my experience UND does not care if you become a pilot, all they care about is money, and people I have spoken with in the faculty have been less then helpful on creating goals for ones future. If they told the truth about the Airline industry their enrollment would suffer substantially.

So if you are going to UND currently, already have, or are going to go no matter what; then good for you, I just hope that you end up being successful and not in a downward spiral of debt for the rest of your life.

I have a lot I need to personally work on for school, but to say that I am not intelligent and setting myself up for failure by doing research and determining something is not the best thing for me to be doing is just plain stupid. Until I finally thought about leaving after this semester, UND just sucked the life out of me and totally threw me off track from achieving my dreams and goals, its probably hard for some of you to understand, but there just comes a point where someone has to get back on track and UND is not the best place for me to do that.

Whatever, I do not care what any of you think; this is an internet forum and you do not see all aspects to the story; just remember that.
 
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