Thank goodness Bye, Bye UND soon enough!

[juxtapilot]

I see that people like to come on here and flame, whatever you either have a good experience or you don't at UND, then afterwords see if you can get a job that will pay enough to live in this industry when you have 1500 dollars a month in student loan payments to pay.

I have not succeeded at UND, some of that is my fault, the other part lies on what I feel has been teaching that HAS NOT BEEN WORTH WHAT I AM PAYING FOR IT. I have been at UND for 3 semesters I do not think I am being at all premature by pulling the plug. From my experience UND does not care if you become a pilot, all they care about is money, and people I have spoken with in the faculty have been less then helpful on creating goals for ones future. If they told the truth about the Airline industry their enrollment would suffer substantially.

So if you are going to UND currently, already have, or are going to go no matter what; then good for you, I just hope that you end up being successful and not in a downward spiral of debt for the rest of your life.

I have a lot I need to personally work on for school, but to say that I am not intelligent and setting myself up for failure by doing research and determining something is not the best thing for me to be doing is just plain stupid. Until I finally thought about leaving after this semester, UND just sucked the life out of me and totally threw me off track from achieving my dreams and goals, its probably hard for some of you to understand, but there just comes a point where someone has to get back on track and UND is not the best place for me to do that.

Whatever, I do not care what any of you think; this is an internet forum and you do not see all aspects to the story; just remember that.

Nicely said. Do what's best for you and good luck!

 

[challenger]

Just to add on, you guys really need to quit comparing my views on college to the military.

The military would be paying me, yet with college I am paying them.

Two totally different situations.

 

[400A]

I see that people like to come on here and flame, whatever you either have a good experience or you don't at UND, then afterwords see if you can get a job that will pay enough to live in this industry when you have 1500 dollars a month in student loan payments to pay.

I have not succeeded at UND, some of that is my fault, the other part lies on what I feel has been teaching that HAS NOT BEEN WORTH WHAT I AM PAYING FOR IT. I have been at UND for 3 semesters I do not think I am being at all premature by pulling the plug. From my experience UND does not care if you become a pilot, all they care about is money, and people I have spoken with in the faculty have been less then helpful on creating goals for ones future. If they told the truth about the Airline industry their enrollment would suffer substantially.

So if you are going to UND currently, already have, or are going to go no matter what; then good for you, I just hope that you end up being successful and not in a downward spiral of debt for the rest of your life.

I have a lot I need to personally work on for school, but to say that I am not intelligent and setting myself up for failure by doing research and determining something is not the best thing for me to be doing is just plain stupid. Until I finally thought about leaving after this semester, UND just sucked the life out of me and totally threw me off track from achieving my dreams and goals, its probably hard for some of you to understand, but there just comes a point where someone has to get back on track and UND is not the best place for me to do that.

Whatever, I do not care what any of you think; this is an internet forum and you do not see all aspects to the story; just remember that.

Ok, I've been quiet long enough. Nobody came on here to flame you, you came on here to flame UND. If anything you said had any resemblance of truth anyone from or currently at UND would back you up. Instead you took the easy way out and blamed UND for YOUR failures.

I have graduated from 3 different Universities, they all teach the same, you show up, the teacher babbles on for a while, the syllabus has the dates for the exams, you show up and take them. It is your responsibility and your responsibility alone to learn the material.

You don't like the local or the population, fine, the local and population don't like you either (and for someone from ND to not like someone else, that is saying something). How a person exits the room speaks VOLUMES about their charachter. Couple this with your "mad skillz at driving" thread and you have painted a very nice picture of yourself for future and current chief pilots.

 

[challenger]

Ok, I've been quiet long enough. Nobody came on here to flame you, you came on here to flame UND. If anything you said had any resemblance of truth anyone from or currently at UND would back you up. Instead you took the easy way out and blamed UND for YOUR failures.

I have graduated from 3 different Universities, they all teach the same, you show up, the teacher babbles on for a while, the syllabus has the dates for the exams, you show up and take them. It is your responsibility and your responsibility alone to learn the material.

You don't like the local or the population, fine, the local and population don't like you either (and for someone from ND to not like someone else, that is saying something). How a person exits the room speaks VOLUMES about their charachter. Couple this with your "mad skillz at driving" thread and you have painted a very nice picture of yourself for future and current chief pilots.

I'll say it again.

Whatever, I do not care what any of you think; this is an internet forum and you do not see all aspects to the story; just remember that.

 

[tlewis95]

Im glad that some individuals like Challenger are open minded enough to see how the big 141 schools cheat students out of so many things and make this decision for themselves. For some, that type of flying is sufficient, and what they want, and that is fine. However, I think that you will have way more fun, spending way less money, and perhaps even becoming a better pilot by going elsewhere to get that confidence building experience that you say they do not do a good job of offering at UND. Good luck in your future flying!

 

[juxtapilot]

Ok, I've been quiet long enough. Nobody came on here to flame you, you came on here to flame UND. If anything you said had any resemblance of truth anyone from or currently at UND would back you up. Instead you took the easy way out and blamed UND for YOUR failures.

I have graduated from 3 different Universities, they all teach the same, you show up, the teacher babbles on for a while, the syllabus has the dates for the exams, you show up and take them. It is your responsibility and your responsibility alone to learn the material.

You don't like the local or the population, fine, the local and population don't like you either (and for someone from ND to not like someone else, that is saying something). How a person exits the room speaks VOLUMES about their charachter. Couple this with your "mad skillz at driving" thread and you have painted a very nice picture of yourself for future and current chief pilots.

There's a lot of truth in what he's said. I can understand his frustration. I had a very similar experience at UND and was frustrated with the University so I left. I have expressed my opinion of UND in the past and I'm not going into it again, but to say he's all wrong about UND is a bunch of bullpoop. You're right though that it's the students responsibility to show up and take their exams. If they do that they should manage decent grades.

Edit:
As for the cost of UND, to be honest it can be very reasonable. If a student establishes residency then the program costs drop dramatically, and the flight costs are actually on the lower spectrum of the flight training world... So I don't completely buy the idea that one should "go to a part 61 because it's cheaper."

 

[challenger]

Im glad that some individuals like Challenger are open minded enough to see how the big 141 schools cheat students out of so many things and make this decision for themselves. For some, that type of flying is sufficient, and what they want, and that is fine. However, I think that you will have way more fun, spending way less money, and perhaps even becoming a better pilot by going elsewhere to get that confidence building experience that you say they do not do a good job of offering at UND. Good luck in your future flying!

That is pretty much spot on and exactly why I want to go to a smaller flight school. :clap:

 

[adk]

Im glad that some individuals like Challenger are open minded enough to see how the big 141 schools cheat students out of so many things and make this decision for themselves. For some, that type of flying is sufficient, and what they want, and that is fine. However, I think that you will have way more fun, spending way less money, and perhaps even becoming a better pilot by going elsewhere to get that confidence building experience that you say they do not do a good job of offering at UND. Good luck in your future flying!

I don't see anybody arguing with the simple fact that he's unhappy at UND and wants to transfer. It's an undisputed fact that 141 is extremely restrictive and a lot of people don't like it. The reason this this thread has reached four pages is because challenger has blamed the financial aid office, his english 101 teacher, and even laptop rental for his problems. If it was a simple case of "this school isn't right for me and I want to transfer" we would understand. Many of us have switched colleges halfway through. Instead, this guy has a chip on his shoulder and it seems to want to burn UND to the ground instead of just transferring.

To challenger: we all understand wanting to transfer colleges. I did it, and it was one of the best decisions I've made. What I fail to understand why you believe that your current university scammed you and why you seem to be out for blood. If you follow this forum at all you should have learned by now that rule number one of flying is never burn bridges. Frankly, you need to grow up. You want to transfer. We understand. Leave it at that.

 

[challenger]

There's a lot of truth in what he's said. I can understand his frustration. I had a very similar experience at UND and was frustrated with the University so I left. I have expressed my opinion of UND in the past and I'm not going into it again, but to say he's all wrong about UND is a bunch of bullpoop. You're right though that it's the students responsibility to show up and take their exams. If they do that they should manage decent grades.

Edit:
As for the cost of UND, to be honest it can be very reasonable. If a student establishes residency then the program costs drop dramatically, and the flight costs are actually on the lower spectrum of the flight training world... So I don't completely buy the idea that one should "go to a part 61 because it's cheaper."

I will be the first to admit I went a little bit overboard on some of my posts on this thread. But like you said there are quite a bit of factual reasons I mentioned about why UND does not work well for certain people.

As far as cost, what I am looking at is going to a smaller flight school with a 152 to get my PPL, which is looking to be about half as much as UND. Hopefully they maintain their aircraft well. I do know that it is a pretty well established FBO and have heard some decent things about them. I have definetly seen places that charge more then UND though for flying.

 

[challenger]

I don't see anybody arguing with the simple fact that he's unhappy at UND and wants to transfer. It's an undisputed fact that 141 is extremely restrictive and a lot of people don't like it. The reason this this thread has reached four pages is because challenger has blamed the financial aid office, his english 101 teacher, and even laptop rental for his problems. If it was a simple case of "this school isn't right for me and I want to transfer" we would understand. Many of us have switched colleges halfway through. Instead, this guy has a chip on his shoulder and it seems to want to burn UNDl to the ground instead of just transferring.

To challenger: we all understand wanting to transfer colleges. I did it, and it was one of the best decisions I've made. What I fail to understand why you believe that your current university scammed you and why you seem to be out for blood. If you follow this forum at all you should have learned by now that rule number one of flying is never burn bridges. Frankly, you need to grow up. You want to transfer. We understand. Leave it at that.

When did I ever say anything about my English 101 teacher being bad?

 

[adk]

2. Are you ready to pay for required classes that do not challenge you intellectually (mostly on the general education side)

Yes, I embellished a bit, but if this is the point of my argument you've chosen to debate you're missing the point.

Your constant pot shots at UND are childish. Someday you'll have a job interview with a UND grad and if you continue to badmouth it like you have here you won't get too far. The school you started at didn't work out for you. Neither did the school I started at. The difference is that I don't trash talk them.

 

[challenger]

Yes, I embellished a bit, but if this is the point of my argument you've chosen to debate you're missing the point.

Your constant pot shots at UND are childish. Someday you'll have a job interview with a UND grad and if you continue to badmouth it like you have here you won't get too far. The school you started at didn't work out for you. Neither did the school I started at. The difference is that I don't trash talk them.

I have heard multiple people say that the gen ed department at UND is about High School level, and I consider this to be true. This is what I experenced in everything other then maybe the luke warm English Composition II class I took. (took Composition I somewhere else and felt I learned more there)

I am leaving soon as soon as this semester is over, so it will only be an afterthought then. Besides its pretty obvious to me that being negative about anything in an interview would not be wise.

 

[CRJDriver]

I see that people like to come on here and flame, whatever you either have a good experience or you don't at UND, then afterwords see if you can get a job that will pay enough to live in this industry when you have 1500 dollars a month in student loan payments to pay.

I have not succeeded at UND, some of that is my fault, the other part lies on what I feel has been teaching that HAS NOT BEEN WORTH WHAT I AM PAYING FOR IT. I have been at UND for 3 semesters I do not think I am being at all premature by pulling the plug. From my experience UND does not care if you become a pilot, all they care about is money, and people I have spoken with in the faculty have been less then helpful on creating goals for ones future. If they told the truth about the Airline industry their enrollment would suffer substantially.

UND is still a business, and they are in business to make money just like every other flight school, flight academy, university, college, etc.

 

[youngflyer]

Im glad that some individuals like Challenger are open minded enough to see how the big 141 schools cheat students out of so many things and make this decision for themselves. For some, that type of flying is sufficient, and what they want, and that is fine. However, I think that you will have way more fun, spending way less money, and perhaps even becoming a better pilot by going elsewhere to get that confidence building experience that you say they do not do a good job of offering at UND. Good luck in your future flying!

Good post. I just completed my instrument 141 and although I feel pretty confident (as much as a wet instrument pilot could), I dont feel like I got enough "real world" experience from the school alone. Thankfully I flew with an instructor back home and we got some actual... I have experienced both forms of training, and they both have their pluses, but in the end, it is up to the individual person to decide what works best for them.

 

[challenger]

UND is still a business, and they are in business to make money just like every other flight school, flight academy, university, college, etc.

Very true. But, I feel from my experience that they could and should put more emphasis on the individual student, just might be me chasing an Unicorn here though thinking of such a thing. :crazy:

 

[Gunnar971]

Oh he'll read it, and so will all the other whiners on here. Will it do any good........nope. They are gonna come on and say "I dont expect anything from anybody, but I deserve to have a job cause I am sweet at flying and took the acro course at UND. Not only did UND screw me but I have 500 hrs (or 15 as in the case of the OP) so that makes me an expert on flying." Get ready for it.

I see that people like to come on here and flame, whatever you either have a good experience or you don't at UND, then afterwords see if you can get a job that will pay enough to live in this industry when you have 1500 dollars a month in student loan payments to pay.

I have not succeeded at UND, some of that is my fault, the other part lies on what I feel has been teaching that HAS NOT BEEN WORTH WHAT I AM PAYING FOR IT. I have been at UND for 3 semesters I do not think I am being at all premature by pulling the plug. From my experience UND does not care if you become a pilot, all they care about is money, and people I have spoken with in the faculty have been less then helpful on creating goals for ones future. If they told the truth about the Airline industry their enrollment would suffer substantially.

So if you are going to UND currently, already have, or are going to go no matter what; then good for you, I just hope that you end up being successful and not in a downward spiral of debt for the rest of your life.

I have a lot I need to personally work on for school, but to say that I am not intelligent and setting myself up for failure by doing research and determining something is not the best thing for me to be doing is just plain stupid. Until I finally thought about leaving after this semester, UND just sucked the life out of me and totally threw me off track from achieving my dreams and goals, its probably hard for some of you to understand, but there just comes a point where someone has to get back on track and UND is not the best place for me to do that.

Whatever, I do not care what any of you think; this is an internet forum and you do not see all aspects to the story; just remember that.

Huh, good call...

To respond to your incessant banter about price and cost- you get what you pay for, but only if you take advantage of it. Case and point- the laptop program. You paid for that, whether you like it or not, and then decided to not even pick up your lap top! Use that exact example on your whole UND flight experience and maybe it well help you better understand the point people are trying to make for you. If you cant even mentally "pick up" (read as come with an open mind and a willingness to learn) the information the teachers are trying to give you, then it would not matter if you had the best Profs in the world and you would still be in the exact situation you are in now.

Also keep in mind that with the added costs at UND you are earning a degree, which will help you immensely in life. If your AF dreams dont work out, what then? You end up spending more money to earn more ratings and to build more flight hours to become marketable to the cooperate/airline jobs. Is it at a cheaper price than UNDs flight costs? Maybe, but UND is pretty low and if you study hard to reduce the need for review flights and briefings they can be even lower. Then one day when you go to your interview for your first corporate or airline job and the person sitting next to you has the exact same flight hours as you and similar experience, but they have a degree from a 4 year college and you dont, who has the edge?

Is part 141 meant for everybody? No. But sticking it out and earning a degree along with your flight time/ratings will be a benefit to you in the future. Either way, flying is hard work and as soon as you realize that its not all guys playing sand volleyball, hopping on their motorcycles to race to their hot girlfriends house for a romantic dinner by the ocean, the better off you will be.

You get out, what you put in...

 

[Shiftace]

You get out, what you put in...

I think that sums up about everything. This topic should now be locked and confined to the dustbin of history.

Cheers

 

[DaveC]

Have fun in the military. Bring a few extra toothbrushes, because with the attitutes you've displayed here you'll be using them to scrub the bathrooms within a week.

 

[challenger]

Huh, good call...

To respond to your incessant banter about price and cost- you get what you pay for, but only if you take advantage of it. Case and point- the laptop program. You paid for that, whether you like it or not, and then decided to not even pick up your lap top! Use that exact example on your whole UND flight experience and maybe it well help you better understand the point people are trying to make for you. If you cant even mentally "pick up" (read as come with an open mind and a willingness to learn) the information the teachers are trying to give you, then it would not matter if you had the best Profs in the world and you would still be in the exact situation you are in now.

Also keep in mind that with the added costs at UND you are earning a degree, which will help you immensely in life. If your AF dreams dont work out, what then? You end up spending more money to earn more ratings and to build more flight hours to become marketable to the cooperate/airline jobs. Is it at a cheaper price than UNDs flight costs? Maybe, but UND is pretty low and if you study hard to reduce the need for review flights and briefings they can be even lower. Then one day when you go to your interview for your first corporate or airline job and the person sitting next to you has the exact same flight hours as you and similar experience, but they have a degree from a 4 year college and you dont, who has the edge?

Is part 141 meant for everybody? No. But sticking it out and earning a degree along with your flight time/ratings will be a benefit to you in the future. Either way, flying is hard work and as soon as you realize that its not all guys playing sand volleyball, hopping on their motorcycles to race to their hot girlfriends house for a romantic dinner by the ocean, the better off you will be.

You get out, what you put in...

For me a future in the Aviation industry does not have to be made at UND. I also believe getting a more marketable degree will help me in the long run. If the military does not work out, I have a multitude of back up plans. I know that I love flying, but to attain the level of financial stability I need in life, I do not think I would look towards the civilian sector of Commercial Aviation currently.

I will do better closer to home where I have more positive influences as friends. At UND it has been seemingly impossible for me to start earning my ratings. For me I do not have the options a lot of people have to take out loans, nor have I been able to find a job in Grand Forks sufficient enough to pay for my flight expenses. When I called up an FBO in Superior, they said it currently is around 55 dollars an hour wet and around 80 with an instructor. This means that instead of spending 300 dollars on a 1.5 hour flight, I would be looking closer to 150; to me money is everything that is making my world turn right now and 300 dollars for a flight is something I have no way of affording.

I suppose that is all it boils down too, if its not possible nor is it working out then there is no point in trying to force it anymore.

Long story short, I am thinking about my future and trying to map it out a lot more then people are giving me credit for on here.

Have fun in the military. Bring a few extra toothbrushes, because with the attitutes you've displayed here you'll be using them to scrub the bathrooms within a week.

Sorry to be a grammar Nazi, but if you are going to insult someone I would suggest learning to spell attitude

 

[DaveC]

And I would suggest not claiming to know better than everyone else in aviaiton when you're the FNG.


Edit: And sorry for not having time to spellcheck in between being paid to fly. Maybe if you spent a little less time worrying about spelling here and more time studying you would be doing better in your classes that "aren't challenging enough."