Teaching "Emergencies" to your students

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone seen that incredibly stupid "stick-on" gear handle that Sporty's sells for fixed gear airplanes as a "learning tool"? I'd love to track that one and correlate gear-ups with those who used it and learned that when you put the gear handle down, expect =nothing= to happen, no descent, no change in airspeed, no extra drag, none of the aerodynamic things that might tell you that the gear didn't make it down in a real retract.

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Sporty's, for all their overpriced junk they have, oddly sells a lot of these moronic "teaching aids" that people actually fall for and spend cash on.

Still trying to figure that one out. Still won't buy anything from Sporty's.

MD
 

Michigan_Flyer

Well-Known Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

On the topic of emergency check lists, for an engine failure during flight, why do they always say to crank the engine and try to restart it? ( At least on Cessna's)

I figure if the engine quits:

A) You have lost either ignition or fuel, the prop will
windmill, and cranking the starter will not help.

Or.......

B) You had a major mechanical failure, the engine is now
seized up, and cranking the starter will not help.
 

davidhigbie

Well-Known Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

I use that gear handle training aid as part of my "$19.95 Complex Sign-Off" offer.

Ha! What a stupid product, but I bet they've sold a couple or it wouldnt be in their catalog.
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

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On the topic of emergency check lists, for an engine failure during flight, why do they always say to crank the engine and try to restart it? ( At least on Cessna's)

[/ QUOTE ]I've never seen on a Cessna engine fire in flight checklist. Engine fire on the ground, yes, but not in flight.
 

Alchemy

Well-Known Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

The Cessna POH Engine Failure during flight checklists say:

Ignition -- BOTH or (START if propeller is stopped).

My C-150M, C172N, and C182RG poh's all say this. Of course you need to check to see if the iggy switch is on on both, you've lost ignition if someon bumped the switch to "off". If the prop is stopped, it is actually a good idea to see if you can get it going again with the starter, assuming you have time to troubleshoot.
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

[ QUOTE ]
He said "failure"

Digital forums are a gift to the slow witted (Mike Reed said that)


[/ QUOTE ]Hey! I resemble that remark!
 

say_speed

New Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

Someone earlier was saying about teaching engine failure after lift-off... Does he mean teaching in the a/c an actual failure after lift-off or ground instruction? I teach my students that emergency on the ground, we simulate it sitting in the chair, that is as far as I'll go to demonstrate this. Same with loss of an engine on take-off on a multi, we talk about it on the ground, use the chair simulator, and that is it. Until vmc demo at altitude...
For the student who was complaining about E.R policy to identify the flaps, it may seem impossible to mistake the flap handle with the gear handle, but believe me, people have done it in the past, and not the most stupid pilots either... Never say it will never happen to me; it might, the day you'll stop following your sop and/or checklists.
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

[ QUOTE ]
Someone earlier was saying about teaching engine failure after lift-off... Does he mean teaching in the a/c an actual failure after lift-off or ground instruction?

[/ QUOTE ] He could mean either. There are a few ways to simulate it in flight.

One way is to do it at altitude. My favorite altitude method is to have my student set up a power-on stall and while he is waiting for the first signs, reach over and pull the power back to idle. The results can be very interesting.

A way to do it near the ground on takeoff is to plan it with the student - =not= make it a surprise. The CFI demonstrates it and when done with the student at the controls, she knows in advance what is going to happen and precisely what she should do when the power is brought back to idle. The primary purpose of the exercise is to develop the visual picture for the pitch change that must be made immediately, so that if it really happens, there is a clear mental picture of what has to take place.
 

bluelake

Well-Known Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

it might have been me (too lazy to back up and read for my own post). I pull the power on students about 50-100'AGL. Its a great lesson. Like Midlifeflyer says, this is never a surprise, and it is of course at a long runway. The longer the runway, the higher one can climb before initiating this maneuver.

The point of doing this is not to build expertise at returning to a long runway.. its to build confidence that if someone is heading for the trees at the end of a SHORT runway... they'll at least still fly the airplane!
 

RiddlePilot

New Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

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For the student who was complaining about E.R policy to identify the flaps, it may seem impossible to mistake the flap handle with the gear handle, but believe me, people have done it in the past, and not the most stupid pilots either... Never say it will never happen to me; it might, the day you'll stop following your sop and/or checklists.

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Duly noted.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For the student who was complaining about E.R policy to identify the flaps, it may seem impossible to mistake the flap handle with the gear handle, but believe me, people have done it in the past, and not the most stupid pilots either... Never say it will never happen to me; it might, the day you'll stop following your sop and/or checklists.

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Duly noted.

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Usually happens during landing rollout when guys try to "clean up" the plane while still heading down the runway, making the turnoff, etc. Post-landing checklist/flow is just that: accomplished after the landing is complete. Especially with aircraft that have co-located gear flap handles/levers, or similiar shaped levers of the same, there's no rush to clean up the plane on rollout that can't wait until the aircraft is clear of the runway and slowed to taxi speed, or stopped. Only post-landing item I accomplish on rollout is close the speedbrakes (located on the throttles) and safe the ejection seat (lever next to the leg). All else takes a 10 second flow to accomplish prior to pulling into dearm.

MD
 

Raskal

New Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

I work with CFI's from a number of colleges and I can't say ERAU's curriculum is my favorite but some things, like the flap handle, are good. As 270 said, fly any pre '84 Bonanza with a student and that'll become really important really quick.

Also, I can't stand when students or advanced pilots clean up the aircraft on the rollout without a reason, and there are very few valid reasons. Clean it up after stop. Where I'm at the rollout is often just as dangerous as anything else with icy/snowy runways to contend with. I want my student's head outside the whole time.
 

bluelake

Well-Known Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

when I am doing a short field landing with a Piper... THATS when I am justfied to go grabbing the flap handle. Any other scenario.. I encourage my students to wait til the rollout is over.
 

say_speed

New Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

What is landing distance of a PA28? I can stop that puppy in 700ft without touching the flap handle. And I don't know too many fields shorter than that!!! And if there are any, I wouldn't go there anyways!
Even when I teach short field landing, I never show my students the "flap secret"; I agree, you stop the airplane in a shorter distance, but retracting the flaps during a check ride means failure, it is just not in the pts, so why bother? and when you fly larger airplanes, like multi, you teach your students not to touch anything until clear of the runway.
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

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but retracting the flaps during a check ride means failure

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Not sure how I've made it all this time without busting then. I always retracted the flaps (in the Seminole and Arrow) during short field landings, and verbalized "flaps up, [simulate] maximum braking"...both in training, and on checkrides. Thats how I was taught, and thats still how I teach short field landings. Normally though, if a student tries to clean anything up before they stop, I smack their hand with a sectional.
 

stuckingfk

Well-Known Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

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I can stop that puppy in 700ft without touching the flap handle.

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Which PA28? You can stop a warrior in 100-200 feet on a good day. I have also made the 50 foot turnoff to a taxiway, but you have to go into that with a little speed.
 

say_speed

New Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

[ QUOTE ]

Not sure how I've made it all this time without busting then. I always retracted the flaps (in the Seminole and Arrow) during short field landings, and verbalized "flaps up, [simulate] maximum braking"...both in training, and on checkrides. Thats how I was taught, and thats still how I teach short field landings. Normally though, if a student tries to clean anything up before they stop, I smack their hand with a sectional.


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If my memory is good, it says in the pts stop the airplane in the shortest distance safely. I guess you could retract the flaps and stop the a/c in a shorter distance, but a check-ride isn't about who can land the a/c in the shortest distance, but procedures and flying skills. The way I teach short field landing is, I tell my students that the 2nd turn off the runway is the end of the runway, and they usually make it (using any turn-off which is representative of the short field distance of the a/c). And there is no need to retract the flaps during roll out.
 

bluelake

Well-Known Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

First of all, the "flap secret" is not at all a secret. It' specifically mentioned in the POH for the Archer, the Arrow, and also the Seminole. To me (and also the DPE I send students to) that means that when demonstrating a short field landing to on a practical test, then retracting the flaps is the order of the day


As far as the dont clean up the airplane on the roll issue, I totally agree. This is a good habit for ANYONE to follow. But to not do something that is in a POH because were grooming a student for bigger airplanes like a multi is really limited. Not all of flight training is airline aspirants grooming airline aspirants. As a CFI, my first priority is to train how to properly fly the airplane they are flying. For a lot of GA pilots, the archer and arrow is as far as they'll go.
 
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