Teaching "Emergencies" to your students

BoDEAN

New Member
Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

What guide do you use when teaching emergencies to your primary students? I teach engine out on the roll, after liftoff, and in the pattern. Also teach the emergency descent, engine failure in flight, and engine fire in flight.

My question is, do you make your students memorize any of the emergency checklists?
 

braidkid

New Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

I dont ask them to memorize the entire emergency checklists. Rather I teach a flow to follow in each emergency. In Cessna's the flow is easy. For example, for engine failure T/S, Start at the bottom (fuel selector) work your way up and to the left. Usually the first two or three line items in the checklist is bolded and suggested for memorization. The rest can be done if time allows.
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

I require that my students know the most important first steps of each emergency procedure, The ones that some POH checklists, including Cessna, put in bold face. These are items that can't wait until you look at something written. The obvious example is power failure shortly after takeoff. Need to think about putting the nose down and you'll probably become a stall-spin departure statistic,

That said, I ask my students to back up rote procedure learning with some understanding. Two reasons. One is that not everyone is good and rote memorization and understanding the procedure aids in solidifying it in memory. Second, sometimes I think that we've become over-checklisted, sometimes at the expense of understanding things, even obvious things.

Do we =really= need an engine out on the roll checklist? Is there a 12 year old out there who wouldn't step on the brakes to make sure she didn't roll off the end of the runway?

Engine-fire in flight? Anyone here have a checklist that doesn't come down to "Shut the fuel, stop the sparks, close the vents to the engine, open the window/vents to fresh air, and get your a$$ on the ground"?
 

Ralgha

Well-Known Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

You would be surprised at how things that appear to be instinctive are not in an emergency. Rolling down the runway after landing, the airplane suddenly swerved to one side. You would think it would be instinctual to try to keep the airplane on the runway, but the student froze.

Engine fire, same kind of thing. I view closing the cabin heat and air as non-intuitive, it would probably be overlooked by most people without a checklist. Likewise increasing airspeed to try to put out the fire would probably be overlooked. Most people would probably know to shut down and secure the engine, but the question is would they do it without a checklist or draw a blank?
 

pscraig

Well-Known Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

I do require students to memorize emergency checklists. In an actual emergency,there is no time to refer to a checklist.

In regards to engine failures on the runway and after liftoff, is this in a single or multiengine aircraft? I get my students pscyched up and ready for a failure on the roll, and the surpise is when we make it to pattern altitude on two engines ( I teach in a Seminole).
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

[ QUOTE ]
You would be surprised at how things that appear to be instinctive are not in an emergency.

[/ QUOTE ]No I wouldn't. I'm just suggesting that thinking about the procedures in conjunction with learning the checklist is an aid in the sense that rote + understanding is superior to rote. For example, in the in-flight fire, the "shutdown" part may be very different depending on the airplane.
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

Not a CFI... but one thing I really like about my CFI is that we do an engine out breifing prior to every takeoff as part of the runup. We state the engine out checklist by memory and what we will do if it goes below 1000' AGL and above 1000' AGL. Then we say the first two things after departure (something like: climb 800' left turn heading 200).
 

BoDEAN

New Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

[ QUOTE ]
Not a CFI... but one thing I really like about my CFI is that we do an engine out breifing prior to every takeoff as part of the runup. We state the engine out checklist by memory and what we will do if it goes below 1000' AGL and above 1000' AGL. Then we say the first two things after departure (something like: climb 800' left turn heading 200).

[/ QUOTE ]

I preach/say that to all my students starting on the "intro ride."
 

stuckingfk

Well-Known Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

[ QUOTE ]
Not a CFI... but one thing I really like about my CFI is that we do an engine out breifing prior to every takeoff as part of the runup. We state the engine out checklist by memory and what we will do if it goes below 1000' AGL and above 1000' AGL. Then we say the first two things after departure (something like: climb 800' left turn heading 200).

[/ QUOTE ]

That is a requirement here at UND. It is part of our takeoff briefing that we have to have memorized as one of our flows. Another thing that is required here is the final check for the warrior is gear down 3 green and locked, mixture rich, flaps whatever you have for this landing.

I came from an FBO and wasn't taught these things, so it was hard getting used to. But I do belive it will help just in case I happen to have something unfortunate happen.
 

rausda27

Well-Known Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

[ QUOTE ]
Another thing that is required here is the final check for the warrior is gear down 3 green and locked, mixture rich, flaps whatever you have for this landing.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the warrior its usually down and welded....lol
 

stuckingfk

Well-Known Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

[ QUOTE ]
In the warrior its usually down and welded....lol


[/ QUOTE ]

Students fail all the time by not doing the final check, yes even in the warrior. I think it is dumb, but I guess they think if you always say it, you will not have a gear up landing.

Hasn't worked too great, we usually have a couple a year, usually with CFI's on board.
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

[ QUOTE ]

Students fail all the time by not doing the final check, yes even in the warrior. I think it is dumb, but I guess they think if you always say it, you will not have a gear up landing.

[/ QUOTE ]I agree with you. I'd go a step further and speculate that teaching "gear down and welded" in a fixed gear airplane causes more gear ups later than it prevents.

Those who insist on it say it teaches a good habit for later. I think students realize that it's silly, say it while knowing that of course the gear is there, and learn that a checklist is something to be mouthed but doesn't have any real meaning.

Especially in a Cherokee. Exactly how does the pilot in a Cherokee =confirm= that the gear is down and welded?

Has anyone seen that incredibly stupid "stick-on" gear handle that Sporty's sells for fixed gear airplanes as a "learning tool"? I'd love to track that one and correlate gear-ups with those who used it and learned that when you put the gear handle down, expect =nothing= to happen, no descent, no change in airspeed, no extra drag, none of the aerodynamic things that might tell you that the gear didn't make it down in a real retract.
 

bluelake

Well-Known Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

I agree with Midlifeflyer,

I think if ya hammer the UNDERCARRAIGE-DOWN of the GUMPS check too hard into a new student (in fixed gear), it will impair them later.

Remember the law of primacy.. and in this case the law of primacy will dictacte that the U of GUMPS os something to 'say' but skip over.... believe me this is true. On my CFI-I training, once I was coming into an airport and I said the whole "GUMPS" thing and STILL left the gear up (no... I did not land gear up).

I aint no rocket-scientist CFI, but in the aircraft I train in and the people I train, I have decided that I am going to train them in THE aircraft they are flying... NOT the NEXT airplane they MIGHT fly. Think about it. The airplane you are flying is the one you are supposed to master... this is different than the university aviation program's objective which is to convince the student that they are being groomed to fly some big iron while they tool around in a Piper like the rest of us Part 61 folks...

Bluelake
 

bluelake

Well-Known Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

and to Gizbug's initial post.....

I teach EVERY emergency that is in the aircraft POH. Each and EVERY one I go over and sign off on before I endorse for solo. Obviously, we cant do all of them.. like ditching... but if as a CFI you look at those emergencies, you can perform almost ALL of them.

I have a printed checklist that lists every emergency identified in the C-172N POH. I go over each one with my students, and god help my Comm students who dont know what they are expected to know....

This is in STARK CONTRAST with MY primary training... where emergencies were limited to my CFI pulling the throttle to IDLE and watching me land.

Bluelake
 

pavelump

Well-Known Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

[ QUOTE ]
This is in STARK CONTRAST with MY primary training... where emergencies were limited to my CFI pulling the throttle to IDLE and watching me land.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's pretty much what I got too, but my CFI would turn off the gas when I wasn't looking (on a 152). That's not very nice...

Dave
 

RiddlePilot

New Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

[ QUOTE ]
That is a requirement here at UND. It is part of our takeoff briefing that we have to have memorized as one of our flows. Another thing that is required here is the final check for the warrior is gear down 3 green and locked, mixture rich, flaps whatever you have for this landing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like some stupid crap we have to do at ERAU. If you're retracting flaps on the ground, it's Riddle policy to say "flaps identified," put your hand on the lever, and listen for the IP to say "flaps verified" before retracting. In the C172, Riddle claimed that doing this prevents *future* gear-up situations when you transition to a complex aircraft. Sounds fishy to me, but whatever.

The stupid thing about this policy is that it's even required in the Seminoles. For anyone who's ever flown a Seminole, you know that the plane has mechanical flaps, with a big ol' emergency-brake-looking handle between the seats. If the ERAU flight department really thinks I'm gonna mix up a huge flap handle 3 feet away from a tiny lil gear handle, they obviously don't have much confidence in their students. My favorite thing to do, albeit not too professional: "Big f-in' handle identified"...If the IP is a "Riddle Nazi," you usually get chewed out student-pilot style, but it's fun.
 

ananoman

New Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

The 'flap handle identified' is pretty funny. In the Pipers, when we do a short field landing, we retract the flaps after landing and go to max braking. In the Piper it is very easy to reach down and just throw the flap lever to the floor without even looking. If you are flying an aircraft with electric flaps, it would be better to just leave the flaps down until after taxiing off the runway. It is probably not worth the risk of accidently bringing the gear up or the distraction of looking for the little lever when rolling down the runway. Since we can land in a shorter distance than we can take off, and there is really no reason to land on a runway less than 2000' long, the marginal loss of stopping power is insignificant.
 

FL270

New Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

The gear/flaps identification will become abundantly clear if you ever fly Bonanzas. I have a ton of Bonanza time, and teach type-specific insurance schools in the airplane on a contract basis, and I've jumped from older airplanes to newer ones, 33s to 35s to 36s, etc. The flap and gear handles switched sides during the Bonanza's lengthy evolution, so it pays to pay close attention. I'm a big believer in doing things exactly the same way all the time (to the extent possible, of course) which is why you'll hear me say "gear down and welded" or something similarly silly-sounding, in Cessnas.

Riddle does some silly things, but I can't say I disagree with their reasoning on that policy.

FL270
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

Yeah, I don't retract the flaps in the Bonanza on the landing roll anymore like I used to do in other RG aircraft. I always wait until I'm clear of the runway and can look at the switch when I hit it. I do like the setup that way though- I always hated having to lean across the cockpit to extend/retract flaps. Now I only have to do that once for the gear, and the flap handle is nice and close.
 

sixpack

New Member
Re: Teaching \"Emergencies\" to your students

"Three in the green".
It's amazing how many people will say the words, but not actually look.

As an instruction, if I sense the student isn't really verifying 3-green, I'll turn on the NAV lights sometime during the flight (pretending to do something else like turn off the landing light). On the Piper Seminole, you can't see the three-green lights during the day because they are too dim with the NAV lights on.

Then, when they do the gear-down flow, just a slight distraction while they're waiting for three green, and wham, they say three green and continue the flow. I wait until they get settled, have them do a gumps check, and if they don't catch it then
, I query them about the lights. Makes for a very good and memorable lesson.
 
Top