tailwheel

[SIUav8er]

This one wheel taxi non sense sounds like a risk that is unnecissary in tailwheel training. Im not saying it doesnt make you better. It sure does! I would compare it to teaching aerobatics to a pre-solo student pilot. Sure it makes them better, but its unnecissary.

Agree totally with Blackhawk.

 

[jrh]

Got mine in under 3 hours.
It was a SuperCub(180HP) with AlaskanBush tires. Only made three landings on pavement, rest were on river beds or peoples back yards.
We only needed 180ft(I was a rookie) to land and 100ft to takeoff:rawk:. Talk about the need of rudder when flying those!

Not meaning to be a jerk, but I would contend that flying / getting a tailwheel endorsement in a plane like this is significantly easier than operating the low powered (sub-100 hp) tailwheels.

The reason I say this is because when there is a high power engine, there is very little time spent rolling with the tail in the air during takeoff. It's pretty much, "Hit the power, lift the tail, pull back and fly." If the plane starts swerving...uhhh...who cares? Just pull back and fly.

In some planes that sit at the proper AoA, you don't even have to lift the tail off. Just hit the power, roll for a ways, and off you go, soaring skyward from the three point position.

Same advantages can be applied to botched landings. Start heading for the weeds after landing? Just hit the power and get off the ground before you reach the edge of the runway and you'll be fine.

In low powered machines, none of these things are possible, so it forces a person to keep tighter control from the start. Go arounds are less of a viable option, so you can't let it get away from you.

I'm not saying low power or high power tailwheel planes are better or worse to train in. In fact, high power tailwheels are probably a bit safer because of the "outs" the extra power gives. A person should be aware of the differences if they're serious about learning tailwheel flying though.

These reasons are why I believe I did fine in a 150 hp Citabria for my initial endorsement, then felt like I was starting over in my 85 hp Cessna 140. I had to learn how to spend more time on two wheels in my 140.



Oh, and for what it's worth, I'd never heard of using a "one wheel taxi" for training until reading this thread. I'd seen it done in air shows before, but I've seen a lot of things done in air shows that I wouldn't try as a training exercise. +1 for not being comfortable with one wheel taxis.

 

[Blackhawk]

Not meaning to be a jerk, but I would contend that flying / getting a tailwheel endorsement in a plane like this is significantly easier than operating the low powered (sub-100 hp) tailwheels.

The reason I say this is because when there is a high power engine, there is very little time spent rolling with the tail in the air during takeoff. It's pretty much, "Hit the power, lift the tail, pull back and fly." If the plane starts swerving...uhhh...who cares? Just pull back and fly.

In some planes that sit at the proper AoA, you don't even have to lift the tail off. Just hit the power, roll for a ways, and off you go, soaring skyward from the three point position.

Same advantages can be applied to botched landings. Start heading for the weeds after landing? Just hit the power and get off the ground before you reach the edge of the runway and you'll be fine.

In low powered machines, none of these things are possible, so it forces a person to keep tighter control from the start. Go arounds are less of a viable option, so you can't let it get away from you.

I'm not saying low power or high power tailwheel planes are better or worse to train in. In fact, high power tailwheels are probably a bit safer because of the "outs" the extra power gives. A person should be aware of the differences if they're serious about learning tailwheel flying though.

These reasons are why I believe I did fine in a 150 hp Citabria for my initial endorsement, then felt like I was starting over in my 85 hp Cessna 140. I had to learn how to spend more time on two wheels in my 140.



Oh, and for what it's worth, I'd never heard of using a "one wheel taxi" for training until reading this thread. I'd seen it done in air shows before, but I've seen a lot of things done in air shows that I wouldn't try as a training exercise. +1 for not being comfortable with one wheel taxis.

I agree. I normally start out tail wheel students in the Super D., then move to the Cessna 140 for more advanced training. It's also what I use to teach dirt strip takeoffs/landings and short field takeoffs/landings. The Super D. will just come off the runway, even on high DA days. The C-140... well, it eventually wallows off the runway. In the mean time, it had better be straight while "speeding" down the runway.

 

[Fly_Unity]

I won't quote all of what Harvey Plourde wrote in "The Complete Taildragger Pilot" on High Speed Taxi exercises, but some of it. His contention is that the high speed taxi is neither fish nor fowl and has little value in training tail wheel pilots. He finishes this section:
"Hence our contention that this is a useless maneuver with excessive risk. Many taildraggers have been literally destroyed in this manner, and the next person to recommend this as a training maneuver should be made to pay the insurance premium on the airplane in question."
I'm always open to learning new things and new techniquies, but he had far more tailwheel time than I, so for time being I will go with his recommendation.

I agree!

I went up with a student who his instructor taught him the "one wheel taxi" he nearly ground looped the plane on me, Its an unnecessary maneuver that has nothing to do with simulating crosswind landings but its more of a "showoff" (see what I can do) maneuver. You need a real crosswind to sign off a student to be proficient in crosswind landings.

And on them high performance tailwheel airplanes (even lower powered ones), have them to take off with 60% power to really get them good at rudder control

 

[juskl]

Well as our flight school has been doing this as part of our training program for over 28 years and we have been training various government agencies for most of that, I would bet that we have value in what it is that we do. The one wheel taxi is a training tool that we use when cross winds have not been occurring during the training. Believe me when I say that it is better to have the real thing.... But in lieu of, we do the one wheel taxi. And the control inputs do replicate those needed for crosswinds. I will put our training record up against anyones and I stand by our training techniques. Don't believe me, check it out for yourself..... Chandler Air Service www.aerobatics.com.

 

[Blackhawk]

Well as our flight school has been doing this as part of our training program for over 28 years and we have been training various government agencies for most of that, I would bet that we have value in what it is that we do. The one wheel taxi is a training tool that we use when cross winds have not been occurring during the training. Believe me when I say that it is better to have the real thing.... But in lieu of, we do the one wheel taxi. And the control inputs do replicate those needed for crosswinds. I will put our training record up against anyones and I stand by our training techniques. Don't believe me, check it out for yourself..... Chandler Air Service www.aerobatics.com.

I don't think any one lambasted your school. If anything, I made a recommendation of your school on this board and to clients looking for type specific training. I pointed out a training technique that is controversial- even with some tail wheel instructors who have written some of the classic books on the matter.

 

[juskl]

Wasn't meant towards you. But I take exception to the showing off comment by another poster. I take pride in what I do and and champion quality flight instruction that focuses on training of all levels and not teaching fear. Many an instructor teaches fear or out of it, when in reality they just aren't good instructors or they lack the experience or skill sets themselves to give quality instruction. We are all a bit older and a bit more experienced in our flying with our lowest time instructor having 1000 dual given and our most experienced having about 20K or more. Most of us are tailwheel and aerobatics guys. The two that aren't, will be soon. I know that instructors do show off, but we are not them. And it bothers me when some take that side.

Anyway, wasn't meant for you. Sorry if you took it that way.