tailwheel

It really depends on your skills and background. When I do a tailwheel endorsement, I spend at least a half an hour doing airwork to figure out if they know how to use the rudders (most Cessna drivers don't). If they do well on that task, then the endorsement usually will go quicker. I also insist on flying on pavement and turf. The AVERAGE pilot will take about 10 hours. Since you are a CFI and could be planning on doing TW endorsements earlier, then I'd hope your CFI would spend more time w/ you to make sure you understand how to teach tailwheel.
 
jrh said:
The thing to remember is that a tailwheel endorsement is on about the same level as a student pilot solo endorsement. It means you're safe enough to handle the plane you were trained in, flying under relatively simple, unchallenging conditions.
Click to expand...
I'm impressed that you spoke it out the way it really is, or has become.
This seems to be the standard in the tailwheel endorsement; student solo proficiency: airplane specific, and basic student wind limits.

...but in fact, it is an endorsement that qualifies the pilot to act as PIC in ANY tailwheel as a Private or Commercial pilot as his pilot cert authorizes.

The comments you see about geting more that minimum student proficiency SHOULD be coming from every Tailwheel Instructor's mouth.

jrh is saying it how it is, and trying to encourage you to do more, and you should be able to run it down the runway on one wheel, as has been expressed, before you consider you are ready to take pax, regardless of a sign-off.

My 2 sense;)
 
nosehair said:
you should be able to run it down the runway on one wheel, as has been expressed, before you consider you are ready to take pax, regardless of a sign-off.

My 2 sense;)
Click to expand...

I disagree, The FARs says proficient in: wheel landings, go arounds, 3 point landings, emergency ops, crosswind landings...

No where does it say one wheel taxi, or even high speed taxi. This is the most dangerous phase of tailwheel flying and should not be practiced unless its something you really need. Its reserved for a bush pilots, not a newbie pilot who just barely learned to fly the thing. I know one instructor who wont sign you off until you can skim the water of a lake with the tires, and fly under power lines. So far he has had 5 wrecks (All of them could have been avoided if he wasn't trying to be a Hoover)

Just my opinion though ;)
 
Fly_Unity said:
I disagree, The FARs says proficient in: wheel landings, go arounds, 3 point landings, emergency ops, crosswind landings...

No where does it say one wheel taxi, or even high speed taxi. This is the most dangerous phase of tailwheel flying and should not be practiced unless its something you really need. Its reserved for a bush pilots, not a newbie pilot who just barely learned to fly the thing. I know one instructor who wont sign you off until you can skim the water of a lake with the tires, and fly under power lines. So far he has had 5 wrecks (All of them could have been avoided if he wasn't trying to be a Hoover)

Just my opinion though ;)
Click to expand...

Would it not make sense to go above and beyond the FAR minimum requirements? Sure, if someone feels confident in his/ her student to act as a responsible pilot after satisfying the minimums, why not? But would that not be the real reason why old school pilots and flight instructors are so upset with the standard of training nowadays?
There is no rule that reserves dangerous actions to bush pilots, but there seems to be a good reason insurance companies won't let someone solo a tailwheel airplane with the differences in training. I agree that most pilots are not able (simply not able) to control their aircraft precisely enough, and from a regular Cessna 172 Captain you can't expect proper use of rudders, but why not give someone the best and most sincere training while you have that person in a tailwheel? If it is possible in this particular airplane, it should be practiced. Everything else I would perceive as getting half a cookie for full price. There is absolutely nothing dangerous about one wheel taxi or high speed taxi if done with a capable instructor.

Sorry - also just my opinion no offense intended.
 
BrewMaster said:
I had a guy fly in the other day and he said he could get me my tailwheel within 3 hours in a 65 horse Aeronca.....are you kidding, that's about how long it would take to go around the pattern once in that plane. Might be worth a shot though.
Click to expand...

Do you have a guy on the field giving tail wheel?

I can't find anybody here that can give instruction, I would defiantly drive out there if he is based there.
 
Cessna414JJB said:
Would it not make sense to go above and beyond the FAR minimum requirements?
Click to expand...

Getting the endorsement and flying until you can meet insurance mins are two separate things.

Why in the world would I sit with an instructor for 25 hours when I can get the sign off in 6. It all comes down to money.

I think that you will find that most people in aviation don't learn a new trick then load the family up. The prudent pilot practices by himself and I think that is what most do in the case of a tail wheel.

It is not just an endorsement it is a business, so no IMO, if the student can do it safely it is time for solo.
 
Douglas said:
Getting the endorsement and flying until you can meet insurance mins are two separate things.

Why in the world would I sit with an instructor for 25 hours when I can get the sign off in 6. It all comes down to money.

I think that you will find that most people in aviation don't learn a new trick then load the family up. The prudent pilot practices by himself and I think that is what most do in the case of a tail wheel.

It is not just an endorsement it is a business, so no IMO, if the student can do it safely it is time for solo.
Click to expand...

You are right. I am not planning on spending more than 6 hours myself (it seems to be the average number as I stated very early on) but I know what my instructor will ask me to perform. He won't sign me off unless I can handle the airplane to his standards, which includes one wheel taxi, high speed taxi, short fields, crosswind and the complete set of emergency ops. I know it's just an endorsement, and I know most people will be prudent. I just don't think it is the right thing to do to try to get it done in as little time as possible. That was my only point. I'm sure a great number of people could actually benefit from 25 hours with a CFI in a tailwheel airplane. If I had the coin I would prefer 25 hours in a controlled but challenging environment.
 
Same standard I use for flight reviews: Would I be comfortable letting a loved one get in an airplane with them.
 
The one thing that I didn't see from TW instructors...the legal aspects. While all that is required is demonstrated proficiency, with this endorsement, the new TW pilot can LEGALLY fly any TW he is otherwise qualified for; therefore, if he jumps into something and injuries himself or someone else, the CFI MAY be liable. After all, it was the CFI who stated he was compentent.
 
escapepilot said:
The one thing that I didn't see from TW instructors...the legal aspects. While all that is required is demonstrated proficiency, with this endorsement, the new TW pilot can LEGALLY fly any TW he is otherwise qualified for; therefore, if he jumps into something and injuries himself or someone else, the CFI MAY be liable. After all, it was the CFI who stated he was compentent.
Click to expand...

Ehhh...yes and no. The liability aspect is pretty minor, in my opinion.

If the new tailwheel pilot hops in to a different plane and crashes it because he didn't get any transition training, I don't see that as being any different than a regular old private pilot crashing a plane he's never flown before. A pilot *could* legally get a high performance endorsement in a 1965 Cessna 182, then hop in a Cirrus SR-22 G3 Turbo, which is a drastically different bird, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

As a CFI, it's not my fault if somebody does something stupid. I can't teach everybody everything there is to know about flying.
 
jrh said:
Ehhh...yes and no. The liability aspect is pretty minor, in my opinion.

If the new tailwheel pilot hops in to a different plane and crashes it because he didn't get any transition training, I don't see that as being any different than a regular old private pilot crashing a plane he's never flown before. A pilot *could* legally get a high performance endorsement in a 1965 Cessna 182, then hop in a Cirrus SR-22 G3 Turbo, which is a drastically different bird, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

As a CFI, it's not my fault if somebody does something stupid. I can't teach everybody everything there is to know about flying.
Click to expand...

Ehh... yes and no. I've been to NTSB hearings and watched lawyers scribble furiously while a CFI was on the hot seat answering questions about training given. I think a CFI would be hard pressed in many cases to say a pilot was competent to be a PIC in a TW airplane after only 4-5 hours. I've even seen cases where CFIs have signed TW endorsements after 5 hours, but then told the pilot that he should fly with a CFI for another 5 hours. Huh??? So is or isn't he okay to be a PIC???
Yes, there are different types of HP, complex airplanes, and TW airplanes and training in one type does not necessarily constitute proficiency in another type. I don't think any NTSB inspector or lawyer would be able to fault you in the situation you gave. But if you fly 1 hour in a 182RG with someone wtih no record of any ground instruction given, call it their HP and complex endorsement, then they stall it during a go-around and kills everyone on board, the lawyers will be all over you like stink on &^$%.
The same goes with TW training. I use a syllabus and record all the flight and ground training. If someone then goes out and prangs an airplane or kills themself and/or others, I've got a record on what I trained them to do, at what level, and in what airplane.
 
Blackhawk said:
Ehh... yes and no. I've been to NTSB hearings and watched lawyers scribble furiously while a CFI was on the hot seat answering questions about training given. I think a CFI would be hard pressed in many cases to say a pilot was competent to be a PIC in a TW airplane after only 4-5 hours. I've even seen cases where CFIs have signed TW endorsements after 5 hours, but then told the pilot that he should fly with a CFI for another 5 hours. Huh??? So is or isn't he okay to be a PIC???
Yes, there are different types of HP, complex airplanes, and TW airplanes and training in one type does not necessarily constitute proficiency in another type. I don't think any NTSB inspector or lawyer would be able to fault you in the situation you gave. But if you fly 1 hour in a 182RG with someone wtih no record of any ground instruction given, call it their HP and complex endorsement, then they stall it during a go-around and kills everyone on board, the lawyers will be all over you like stink on &^$%.
The same goes with TW training. I use a syllabus and record all the flight and ground training. If someone then goes out and prangs an airplane or kills themself and/or others, I've got a record on what I trained them to do, at what level, and in what airplane.
Click to expand...

Well said. I completely agree.

I was mainly speaking to the idea that an endorsement to be PIC in a tailwheel means "be PIC in any tailwheel," which I disagree with.
 
Well 38D provides tailwheel training
5 to 10 hrs
10 hrs is when you can rent the aircraft
The training is done in a citabra

They also have a super D and the instructor has a pitts

The super D takes 25 hours to get put on the insurance before renting and its dual only.

Showing you that there are compitent places to get your tailwheel you just have to look.
 
The one wheel taxi simulates the control imputs needed for a crosswind landing on days when there is no crosswind. Improves overall understanding of the control imputs needed in all aspects of controlling a tailwheel airplane. To rent one of our supercubs, you need a minimum of 8 hours with an instructor (initial tailwheel training for endorsement, otherwise it is a checkout like any other). However, it all depends on the pilots. It has taken anywhere from 8 (with a capable pilot, high time) to 30 hours..... 30 is very rare, but some pilots just don't get it..... 12 -15 is the norm.

I have flown four different types of tailwheel aircraft. Mostly supercubs (we have four of them), Great Lakes Biplanes (four of them as well for aerobatic training), a Cessna 140 (customers plane Private student), and the Super Decathalon. The supercub can be the most interesting to learn in, but in my opinion is the best from a learning standpoint.... The others are much more forgiving. The super D is very forgiving. I like it too. Honestly, I like anything tailwheel and they all need to be treated with respect, otherwise they can bite you when you least expect it. Just be leary of the 5 hour programs. Get the training to the utmost degree possible, no matter the hours involved... Remember, you get what you pay for....
 
Ive never done a "one wheel taxi"

could someone explain that one? I learned in a 65hp Champ and now I fly an Aviat Huskey just for fun. In my opinion, there really should be no expectation on how many hours to get the endorsement. I think mine took about 10 hours. Honestly though, I still feel the need to go out and do pattern work on a monthly basis to stay comfortable.

I also have pretty strict personal limitations on flying a tail dragger. I wont fly if the wind is over 15 kts and/or the x-wind component is greater than 5. Maybe a little too conservative, but i have a huge respect for tail draggers as they can bite you in the ass very quickly.
 
One wheel taxi...... Throttle to take off as a normal takeoff. Push up onto the mains and pull the power back to about 2100 rpms or so. then put the stick to the left or the right and fly the plane with one wheel on the runway... (just a function of aerodynamics). You need to be active on the rudders to keep the plane rolling straight down the runway, but on one wheel.... So if you are doing a left wheel taxi, you will use left stick and right rudder to keep going straight (same as if taking off or landing with a left crosswind). Then put the wheel down and go over to the right wheel, etc.. Sounds more difficult then it actually is. Work on this with an instructor first though. If you can do this well, you can handle crosswinds. good luck...
 
I won't quote all of what Harvey Plourde wrote in "The Complete Taildragger Pilot" on High Speed Taxi exercises, but some of it. His contention is that the high speed taxi is neither fish nor fowl and has little value in training tail wheel pilots. He finishes this section:
"Hence our contention that this is a useless maneuver with excessive risk. Many taildraggers have been literally destroyed in this manner, and the next person to recommend this as a training maneuver should be made to pay the insurance premium on the airplane in question."
I'm always open to learning new things and new techniquies, but he had far more tailwheel time than I, so for time being I will go with his recommendation.
 
Got mine in under 3 hours.
It was a SuperCub(180HP) with AlaskanBush tires. Only made three landings on pavement, rest were on river beds or peoples back yards.
We only needed 180ft(I was a rookie) to land and 100ft to takeoff:rawk:. Talk about the need of rudder when flying those!
 
Cessna414JJB said:
Would it not make sense to go above and beyond the FAR minimum requirements? Sure, if someone feels confident in his/ her student to act as a responsible pilot after satisfying the minimums, why not? But would that not be the real reason why old school pilots and flight instructors are so upset with the standard of training nowadays?
There is no rule that reserves dangerous actions to bush pilots, but there seems to be a good reason insurance companies won't let someone solo a tailwheel airplane with the differences in training. I agree that most pilots are not able (simply not able) to control their aircraft precisely enough, and from a regular Cessna 172 Captain you can't expect proper use of rudders, but why not give someone the best and most sincere training while you have that person in a tailwheel? If it is possible in this particular airplane, it should be practiced. Everything else I would perceive as getting half a cookie for full price. There is absolutely nothing dangerous about one wheel taxi or high speed taxi if done with a capable instructor.

Sorry - also just my opinion no offense intended.
Click to expand...

What are these rudders? you are talking about? Is that French...?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top