System knowledge

I fully expect “hurr durr Alaska pilotz are dangler-us” whatever - I’ve come to accept that is the going thought process, and statistically it’s probably correct. Still, I want to be the best I can be at whatever I’m doing, not just “get by.”

Agreed. Pilots should always be trying to improve themselves in knowledge.

In the Hog, I knew the plane very well, but there was so much else we had to know, from huge things like weapons employment/tactics, regs, flight employment, etc; that there really came a time where you had to learn what truly was important to know and more importantly, be able to retain. Knowing it all just became an impossibility, as there was so much possible info. But, good thing is that you got good at knowing and prioritizing the need to know and the nice to know as you gained experience.

Regarding Alaska, people comparing Alaska ops with CONUS ops; they're trying to compare two different flight environments with very different sets of challenges in each. One isn't more right than the other, they're just different in their own ways.
 
When I gave checkrides I gave everyone a list of all the “need to know” items, all the “nice to know” items, and all the trivia I could think of. I gave out flash cards for everything and published a study guide. Weekly if I had time I’d send out some brain teasers.

If you knew the need to know stuff and only that, I’d bust your balls, but you’d pass your oral. If you knew the need to know and the nice to know you’d pass and we’d talk about some of the trivia and it’d go smoothly. If you knew the need to know, nice to know, and trivia it was a breeze.

I could see a tidy little business for you in marketing study content in specific areas that bigger companies like Gleim, ASA and Jeppesen aren't necessarily covering....
 
That's a sound method, as you've already vetted items and divided them up, and even provided the student with that vetting. The thing you can't do that they need to do, is take the learning and understanding and place that into their brain. Thats on the student to do. You're not spoon feeding them, but you aren't trying to stump them with a bunch of minutia info from out of left field that they've never heard of either.

I also feel like ground school should cover even the minutiae, then over time the standard for what is acceptable should Ben increased. If you’ve been to a dozen ground schools and don’t know any of the “nice to know” unless there is some mitigating circumstances (like being qualified in 5 airplanes or whatever) that’s probably not ok. I don’t know how to quantify that though.


I could see a tidy little business for you in marketing study content in specific areas that bigger companies like Gleim, ASA and Jeppesen aren't necessarily covering....

I’ve thought about this but I’m concerned that marketing to broke-dick 135 companies is a losing proposition when a lot of these companies won’t pay for sim training, or really anything above the legal minimum.
 
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I can't even use both hands and feet to count how many times my sim instructor would lean forward, do something to the FMS to make it go, and get us moving...
This was one of my biggest peeves. I would make sure they let me practice at setting stuff up. If there wasn't time to do it then they would have to order up another sim session. I don't want to create a smoking hole so you didn't have to do another hour of sim that day.
 
I also feel like ground school should cover even the minutiae, then over time the standard for what is acceptable should Ben increased. If you’ve been to a dozen ground schools and don’t know any of the “nice to know” unless there is some mitigating circumstances (like being qualified in 5 airplanes or whatever) that’s probably not ok. I don’t know how to quantify that.

I don't disagree. There is something to be said keeping ones bag of knowledge as full as possible, never know when something may be needed in there. I'm in the situation you mention, in that I keep fully qualed in 3 different aircraft, regularly flying 2 of them and flying the 3rd at a lesser rate. I'll honestly say that keeping straight and even retaining all the various numbers and limits and such for all the systems of each of the individual aircraft, is very challenging. I feel I'm at the point where to learn something new, the brain will have to load shed some other pieces of information in order to accommodate. And that's even with trying to review the different aircraft on a semi-regular basis and not just cram for recurrent.
 
One person's "need to know" is another persons "that's nice to know". That is up to the operator/training department, not the individual instructor.

I'm glad my company doesn't do a "stump the chump" type oral. At one company I worked at, you knew certain guys knew a certain system well and would ask more questions on that then any other system and studied accordingly.

I thought the computerized systems testing was much fairer way to test your knowledge

Everything in the past is always the bestest....MAKE AVIATION GREAT AGAIN......
 
Agreed. And if there was a way to separate out the need to know from the nice to know, with regards to that kind of information......ie- what info actually is a pitfall the pilot can fall into vs what is something the computer only knows or is something outside the pilot's control; that would be pretty helpful in my opinion as it comes to learning what's truly important to know.

Hence my recommendation to have the engineers and test pilots for the manufacturers (OEMs) make that determination. They designed it, they have the best idea of what is important to know.
 
The less systems knowledge the better. Obviously you need a general understanding on them but more than that starts to work against you in modern airplanes.

If something goes wrong follow the checklist. The more people know about systems the more they try and play mechanic/ do their own thing in flight.

Don’t crash, follow the checklist, land. Don’t over complicate it.

Did you even read my article?

Tell that to the pilots of QF72 and QF32, or Sully Sullenberger. Only having the knowledge to follow checklists leads to the knowledge gaps that resulted in accidents like Air France 447.
 
The less systems knowledge the better. Obviously you need a general understanding on them but more than that starts to work against you in modern airplanes.

If something goes wrong follow the checklist. The more people know about systems the more they try and play mechanic/ do their own thing in flight.

Don’t crash, follow the checklist, land. Don’t over complicate it.

Did you even read my article?

Tell that to the pilots of QF72 and QF32, or Sully Sullenberger. Only having the knowledge to follow checklists leads to the knowledge gaps that resulted in accidents like Air France 447.

Nope.
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Hence my recommendation to have the engineers and test pilots for the manufacturers (OEMs) make that determination. They designed it, they have the best idea of what is important to know.

While this is “generally” correct, it’s been my experience that for every professionally put together AFM, there are 10 with inconsistencies, misspellings, errors and the like. This is especially the case with older GA types.

Even in newer-ish airplanes it’s the case that I’ve run across issues and systems knowledge that aren’t covered in the checklist but make the difference between success and failure on an abnormal - wth smaller airplanes it’s often the case that the AFM is never amended to reflect a new scenario that’s popped up operationally.
 
When you shut an engine down and divert for a fire light in an early King Air because the sun was setting and the cracks in the cowling let too much infrared light in and set off a photo receptor I’m going to laugh at you.

You strictly followed the checklist and made the situation worse.
The panicked call because only 2 green on a ‘jo.
“Did the handle re-cycle? It did? Ok great, go ahead and land you coo”
 
Hence my recommendation to have the engineers and test pilots for the manufacturers (OEMs) make that determination. They designed it, they have the best idea of what is important to know.

If you could somehow keep the lawyers out of the picture, that would be great.

Meanwhile back on reality ranch, have you seen a POH for a new airplane? It's 70% product liablity driven warning and cautions, 20% performance charts for every conciveble configuration (most of which will almost never be used), 5% FAA required data, and maybee 5% useful systems knowledge.

"Warning, Avation gasoline is highly flamable"
 


When you shut an engine down and divert for a fire light in an early King Air because the sun was setting and the cracks in the cowling let too much infrared light in and set off a photo receptor I’m going to laugh at you.

You strictly followed the checklist and made the situation worse.

First, you ain’t catching me in no king air player. Unless I win the lottery.

Second, we really making fun of guys for being cautious? If those dudes worked for me I’d say thanks for not crashing.

But then again I don’t fly in alaska soooooo
 
The problem with the minimalist approach to systems knowledge is that it assumes an underlying mechanical aptitude. This is particularly problematic with the generation coming to the airlines today. They know software very well, but mechanical systems are lilke Swahili.

As a mechanic and pilot, already having a deep and broad base of how aircraft systems work and interact with each other, the quick and simple explaination is sufficent. However, when I went through 121 initial there were a couple of new hires fresh out of their 152s who barely understood the systems on a Cessna, much less a CRJ. I was happy to help them by holding a "Turbine Engine 101" class in our hotel in the evenings, but they were clearly out of their depth.

Now having said that, the old "how many blades are on the second stage of the compressor" and "draw the electrical schematic from memory" was stupid and needed to die as well.
 
A reasonable article Shem and I don't disagree with a lot of what you say. The orals we had at my first "commuter" airline were pretty intense (edit - I wrote that not remembering you were at the same one). That aircraft had a 14 step procedure for electrical smoke of unknown origin that had to be memorized. Just one of many memory items on that airplane. My first type rating in a jet (DC-9) I had to draw the electrical and hydraulic systems from memory, among other things. Some airlines have no memory items now.

That all said, and because I have been on the training side of the equation for many years, the newer more modern aircraft systems are so complex that the previous level of systems knowledge is simply impossible within the finite requirements of an airline or other type rating course. Boeing is who I am most familiar with. On the 787 they have written only one page in the FCOM about the actual brains of the airplane, the Common Core System. No detailed description. I have access to more detailed data from the Boeing CSIDs ( Crew System Interface Documents). For the Common Core System it is closer to 40 pages of description and diagrams. Why did Boeing do this? The easy answer is there really is not much a pilot can do about how the system operates. There are 2 Common Computer Resource (CCR) reset switches on the overhead panel, which are not normally used. Pushing them basically reboots that specific CCR and is a QRH (electronic checklist) item only.

Similarly the electrical system is so complex that the FCOM does not even touch on certain areas of it. For instance there is a 270 Volt DC portion to the electrical system but no mention of it whatsoever in the FCOM. It is actually written as Large Motor Power Distribution System in the FCOM ( 3 paragraphs, no diagram). There is only a very simplified Power Flow and Distribution schematic in the FCOM, no more full electrical diagrams.

While systems like the above have become much more complex so too has FMS and Flight Guidance as compared to the early DC-9 and 727s that we flew. Those were easy airplanes to get in and start-up. I could get a DC-9 going in under 10 minutes( I think 5 was my record). The autopilot was basically just a wing leveler with some pitch and altitude holding capability. No FMS to program, not much to set-up really. Today that is certainly not the case. Anything under 30 minutes in a B777 or B787 would feel incredibly rushed.

Airlines tend to place much more emphasis on use of the automation, and they need to, because that is the normal way of flying the airplane. By comparison Flight Safety International is stuck in the dark ages of system ground school. They spent an inordinate amount of time on systems classes and not near enough on the FMS and autoflight. I had ground school instructors talking about the temperature of the fuel as it moved through the fuel pump ( Are you "blank" kidding me?) This while almost totally ignoring how to program the FMS and not adequately describing blue/green needles (really important stuff).

In today's information society there really does need to be a compromise on what we are required to know versus what is nice to know and what we really don't need to know. The human brain can only retain so much information (penguins on an iceberg anyone?). While it would be grand if I could draw a 787 electrical system from memory or remember the temperature of the fuel as it goes through the fuel pump it does almost no good whatsoever in operating the airplane.

So, in a nutshell, the new systems knowledge philosophy is... the dude on the left.
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Prophylactic caveat: I didn't read one word of your book. No dis, just no time right now.

That said, my understanding of the Air France debacle was that it was based not a lack of systems knowledge, but rather, on a lack of knowledge of: A. basic airmanship, and B. a lack of applicable understanding of the modes of operation of the equipment the pilots were entrusted to understand how to operate; That, in a very literal sense, they didn't know what they were doing as they did things. In other words, it wasn't a so much a systems knowledge issue, but more of a "what does the red button do?" issue, which is more operational than systems, imo.

And that said, did they ever get in Guinness for the world record falling leaf maneuver?
 
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