Sweatin' the C-172...

Autothrust Blue said:
And since the FLAP gauge and gear handle/lights are right in front of me on the Brasilia, I glance at them crossing the fence, too. ;)
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I can't imagine not glancing at the gear indicators over the fence every time. Most of the time you can not do everything else but that and still be fine.
 
NewYorkophile said:
Definitely an interesting conversation- but you must also consider where that pilot will be in 5 years. If you teach him the habit of relying on a mental checklist, and just "knowing" the configuration of the aircraft, then you're not teaching an appropriate habit pattern for large, fast airplanes. The checklist is more or less arbitrary in a fuel injected Cessna...in a big airplane, it can absolutely save your life, especially when you are doing the same thing over and over and over. Repetition leads to excellence, followed very shortly after by complacency. It happens to all of us.
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I am a really really big fan of flying the airplane you are in. Not that one you want to be or think you will be someday. The one right now.
 
NewYorkophile said:
Definitely an interesting conversation- but you must also consider where that pilot will be in 5 years. If you teach him the habit of relying on a mental checklist, and just "knowing" the configuration of the aircraft, then you're not teaching an appropriate habit pattern for large, fast airplanes. The checklist is more or less arbitrary in a fuel injected Cessna...in a big airplane, it can absolutely save your life, especially when you are doing the same thing over and over and over. Repetition leads to excellence, followed very shortly after by complacency. It happens to all of us.
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I'm still a proponent of "fly the airplane you're in." I think the methodologies are not mutually exclusive, and that's an important distinction. Habit patterns of "paperwork / numbers flying" a Cessna can kill you in the same manner that 'seat of the pants' flying can kill you in a much larger airplane. (I presume—my direect experience only runs to slightly larger airplanes at the present time.)

My answer to anyone who asks me about the numbers on a 207 is a blank stare, but you bet your ass I'd know the numbers cold in a transport category airplane.

I'm not saying I'm right, by the way. I'm saying "my opinion is currently." I don't think one set of habit patterns is correct for all types of flying.

-Fox
 
z987k said:
I am a really really big fan of flying the airplane you are in. Not that one you want to be or think you will be someday. The one right now.
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Amen!

One thing I can't stand about pilot mills is the idea of teaching students to fly skyhawks as though they are jets.

Controls
Instruments
Gas
Flaps
Trim

Works in just about any single engine airplane. Everything else is either an annoyance (transponder still in stby) or painfully obvious (brakes).
 
z987k said:
I am a really really big fan of flying the airplane you are in. Not that one you want to be or think you will be someday. The one right now.
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Very solid statement.

We learned this the hard way in the F-15E. We may or may not have discovered when and why the "yaw rate, yaw rate" tone comes on the other day while doing BFM.
 
ryan1234 said:
Very solid statement.

We learned this the hard way in the F-15E. We may or may not have discovered when and why the "yaw rate, yaw rate" tone comes on the other day while doing BFM.
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F-15E and BFM.

I've always wanted to see an F-14 vs an F-15E in a dogfight. Battle of the grapes! :D
 
USMCmech said:
Amen!

One thing I can't stand about pilot mills is the idea of teaching students to fly skyhawks as though they are jets.

Controls
Instruments
Gas
Flaps
Trim

Works in just about any single engine airplane. Everything else is either an annoyance (transponder still in stby) or painfully obvious (brakes).
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I wish I found this forum BEFORE I went to ATP.
 
Hacker15e said:
Airmanship habits are a bitch to break!
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Although great habits, be cautious. This can be problematic in a 121 environment. I have been hearing (more frequently now) stories about the difficulties some military guys are having adjusting to the airline environment. It's not a moon shot. Relax a little.
 
Hacker15e said:
So I'm going to go get checked out in my local Aero Club's C-172R tomorrow...

...and thought you guys might be amused that tonight I'm sitting here surrounded by Cessna manuals, checklists, EPs, ops limits, etc, and studying it frantically like tomorrow was my IPUG ACT mission in the F-15E (I know that's probably Greek to most of you, but it was probably one of the toughest non-combat flights I've ever flown in my entire career. @hook_dupin, @MikeD, and probably a couple others know what I'm talking about).

My wife looks over at me sitting in the corner, eyes closed, verbally rehearsing emergencies, and says:

"Overachiever! It is a Cessna, you dolt, you're not leading a combat mission over Iraq."

Can't help it...my mind is just programmed this way. I've gotta have my "head work" right before I get to the airplane, regardless of what kind of iron it is. Airmanship habits are a bitch to break!
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Just remember "L SAVES LIVES"...

-In an "L" shaped pattern, start down at the fuel tank selector, go up to the mixture, across to the throttle, primer, master, and ignition key... basically if anything other than a flight control failure or trim runaway happens in a 172, following this pattern and manipulating the items in the pertinent direction will solve pretty much anything that can kill you in a 172.
 
USMCmech said:
Amen!

One thing I can't stand about pilot mills is the idea of teaching students to fly skyhawks as though they are jets.

Controls
Instruments
Gas
Flaps
Trim

Works in just about any single engine airplane. Everything else is either an annoyance (transponder still in stby) or painfully obvious (brakes).
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Works pretty well in twins up to PA31 too!

Most GA aircraft a flow from the bottom of the pedestal up then over to the left side of the panel will get you ready for takeoff. GUMP takes care of before landing. The rest is just details.
 
Hacker15e said:
Flight Review (and club checkout) complete! Back in the game....
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Nice. When I first bought my cheetah, I had never flown a GA plane before. So it was a big change flying the mighty orion one day to the Cheetah the next. Took me a while to pull that power all the way off in the flare.
 
mjg407 said:
Nice. When I first bought my cheetah, I had never flown a GA plane before. So it was a big change flying the mighty orion one day to the Cheetah the next. Took me a while to pull that power all the way off in the flare.
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Fortunately, I was a GA pilot before being in the military, and I've kept my toes dipping in civilian flying all throughout my career, so it wasn't as strange a transition back as it could have been.
 
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