Swayne Martin

I feel bad for the flight students, but good lord!

1. Rip up any application to Embry or UND or [insert massively yoog flight school university]
2. Go to cheaper local/state school
3. Major in something other than aviation
4. Fly out of the local GA airport closest to you. A true mom-pop operation. Even in New Jersey at a place not far from me I can rent a Cherokee for $97/hr wet. Instructor $52.
5. Get all private, instrument, commercial, multi out of said mom-pop local school.


That right there should chop 40%-50% of $270 grand.


I don't know if kids think long term at age 18 when they sign up for these huge loans. But you get 270 grand on a loan, you're probably gonna end up paying over 300k over 30 years. You just got a mortgage basically, at age 18, which you will spend the rest of your life paying. And you don't even have a house yet with a REAL mortgage payment...



With student debt at 1 trillion with a T, and the government holding a huge portion of that debt, they should pass laws that prohibit that level of extortion on young adults. This bubble is going to burst one day.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I feel bad for the flight students, but good lord!

1. Rip up any application to Embry or UND or [insert massively yoog flight school university]
2. Go to cheaper local/state school
3. Major in something other than aviation
4. Fly out of the local GA airport closest to you. A true mom-pop operation. Even in New Jersey at a place not far from me I can rent a Cherokee for $97/hr wet. Instructor $52.
5. Get all private, instrument, commercial, multi out of said mom-pop local school.


That right there should chop 40%-50% of $270 grand.


I don't know if kids think long term at age 18 when they sign up for these huge loans. But you get 270 grand on a loan, you're probably gonna end up paying over 300k over 30 years. You just got a mortgage basically, at age 18, which you will spend the rest of your life paying. And you don't even have a house yet with a REAL mortgage payment...



With student debt at 1 trillion with a T, and the government holding a huge portion of that debt, they should pass laws that prohibit that level of extortion on young adults. This bubble is going to burst one day.
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UND is a state school. I haven't looked at it recently, but tuition is on par with any other state school. Plus it was super easy to get in state tuition. Flight costs were on par with, or cheaper than what my school was charging as a normal flight school when I was a CFI.

Again, no idea what it is now, but I guarantee you it's nowhere near the all boys aviation school. Plus there is a normal college filled with normal people attached to it.
 
JDean3204 said:
An excellent post. As awesome as this is, I hope this young pilot realizes the reality of the situation financially. If you are bogged with debt, an SIC gig like this can be a serious stress. You make roughly 600 a paycheck after taxes. So take home, 1200 a month. That isn't much while she has to deal with rent, debt and not starving. Also, the schedules can make it very hard to have a second job, you have to have a flexible second job if that is the case as the airline gig will take priority. At my old airline, many guys racked up a bunch of debt trying to get by on that SIC pay, myself included.

So it's not all roses, but a good opportunity if she can grin and bear the pay.
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This is what I as thinking as well. The video was awesome and she'll definitely get more experience and hours by getting this job but remember she'll be on Caravan FO which is peanuts. Not sure it would help her financial situation at all. In fact, it may even hurt her due to the high cost of living in Hawaii.
 
UND also gives highly reduced tuition to west coast states. When I got accepted I was a California resident and was given similar "in state" tuition. I think without that program (western undergraduate exchange) nobody would attend. Although, I still picked somewhere else in the end.

Fantastic school. A lot different than ERAU.
 
tcco94 said:
UND also gives highly reduced tuition to west coast states. When I got accepted I was a California resident and was given similar "in state" tuition. I think without that program (western undergraduate exchange) nobody would attend. Although, I still picked somewhere else in the end.

Fantastic school. A lot different than ERAU.
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Yup. In hindsight I'd have taken a different route. But that has less to do with the school than it does the fact that North Dakota sucks. I just don't think it's fair to lump it in with humpty doodle. It's just another state school that happens to have a flight program.
 
At UND's Phoenix location, private through CFI came out to around $54k but the program only gets you to an Associates with the option of going on to UND in North Dakota.
 
Drew88 said:
Associates with the option of going on to UND
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here in the states, roughly what % of those flying for majors have a bachelor degree? Let me amend that, should kids coming of high school understand a bachelors is needed for a career in commercial aviation in the U.S..
 
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Bear said:
here in the states, roughly what % of those flying for majors have a bachelor degree? Let me amend that, should kids coming of high school understand a bachelors is needed for a career in commercial aviation in the U.S..
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I'm not at the majors (or regionals) so I can't speak about the numbers/% of those who have a Bachelors, however, common knowledge is you need to have a Bachelors in order to get picked up at a Major now. I received my Bachelors back in 2012 before Active Duty so I'm fortunate to not have to pursue it now.
 
Here's the thing though. There's VERY LITTLE return on investment from ERAU or the types, when you consider that you could have accomplished the exact same thing at a cheaper local/state college/university, and flown out of a mom-pop FBO operation.



Bear said:
here in the states, roughly what % of those flying for majors have a bachelor degree? Let me amend that, should kids coming of high school understand a bachelors is needed for a career in commercial aviation in the U.S..
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Most legacy/major pilots have a 4-year degree. Some airlines outright require a bachelor degree (Delta, Fedex, Alaska).
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
For the UNDs here, just curious years of attendance, and cost for one year for tuition, and then the separate cost for flight training?
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http://und.edu/admissions/undergraduate/costs-and-aid/

I have no idea about the flying, but for me I want to say private to CFII/RJ course was in the 30s. There's cheaper places, but it wasn't obscene. Especially since all I needed was an apartment off campus and I was was paying in state.
 
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