SWA mediator deadline approaching 11/30

[ZapBrannigan]

The 11/30 deadline the NMB mediators imposed on SWA and SWAPA is just two weeks away. They meet this week for three days in San Antonio and then the week ending the 30th in DC (presuming the government is still funded).

Three things could happen.

1. They’re close to a deal with just a few things to wrap up, mediator tells them to keep meeting.
2. Mediator decides one or both parties are being intransigent and puts them “on ice” for some period of time, or
3. NMB declares an impasse and moves the RLA ball further down the field towards self help.

If APC is the pulse of the pilot group, the pilot group is unwilling to accept 737 rates of pay - looking for career earnings more in line with the Big 3 despite type of aircraft operated. Time will tell…

The union’s president discusses these three possibilities on the SWAPA number podcast this week.

‎The SWAPA Number: 11/30 (Expectations, Casey Murray, Jody Raven) on Apple Podcasts

‎Show The SWAPA Number, Ep 11/30 (Expectations, Casey Murray, Jody Raven) - Nov 13, 2023

podcasts.apple.com

 

[Kingairer]

I can tell you, APC is not the pulse of any pilot group. You know that.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I can tell you, APC is not the pulse of any pilot group. You know that.

I know. I said it kind of tongue in cheek. There are some expectations over there that seem a little pie in the sky.

But what the heck. If we can't make gains today then we'll never have another negotiating environment like this. At least not in the 15 years I've got left. Might as well shoot for the moon.

 

[Ian_J]

Good luck to you guys!

 

[Kingairer]

I know. I said it kind of tongue in cheek. There are some expectations over there that seem a little pie in the sky.

But what the heck. If we can't make gains today then we'll never have another negotiating environment like this. At least not in the 15 years I've got left. Might as well shoot for the moon.

As well y'all should. I would think with Alaska being a 737 only operator that would be the baseline from where yall should be. I've known this to be the case, but in my most recent case, I felt our numbers were closer to 50/50 range on contract based on the message board and line bravado when in reality the contract passed easily at 73%.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Any chance TFP changes to regular flight block hours? Or unlikely?


Y’all are too confusing to figure out pay-wise.

 

[///AMG]

I don't want to derail this, but how exactly does TFP work? And what does it stand for BTW? I've heard your pay system is different, just don't know how.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

TFP stands for Trips For Pay. It was originally based on how long it takes to fly from Dallas to Houston I believe.

Scheduled Pay for a flight is the greater of:

• MileagePay - 1 TFP for any distance 243 miles or less, plus an extra .1 TFP for each additional 40 statute miles over 243

• Overschedule Pay - 1 TFP for the first 55 minutes of scheduled block plus an additional .1 TFP for each 5 minute increment.

The advantage to staying with the TFP formula Is it preserves the pay on eastbound legs in fall and winter, sets a mileage floor for pay on short legs, and provides for an increasing equivalent hourly pay rate on longer legs.

A general conversion is around 1.15 TFP per hour. So if you make 100 TFP that’s pretty close to $115 per hour.

But that really only matters when comparing to other airlines. In day to day life the goal is the same as it is everywhere else. Make as many TFP as possible with as little work as possible. The pay rate is constant, so maximizing the number of “trips” (hours…credit…units…widgets… doesn’t matter what you call it. It’s just a multiplier.)

If you make $240TFP and a trip is worth 26 “trips” you just multiply the two to see what the trip pays. No different than if you made $240 dollars per hour and the trip was worth 26 hours.

 

[MikeD]

The 11/30 deadline the NMB mediators imposed on SWA and SWAPA is just two weeks away. They meet this week for three days in San Antonio and then the week ending the 30th in DC (presuming the government is still funded).

Three things could happen.

1. They’re close to a deal with just a few things to wrap up, mediator tells them to keep meeting.
2. Mediator decides one or both parties are being intransigent and puts them “on ice” for some period of time, or
3. NMB declares an impasse and moves the RLA ball further down the field towards self help.

4. SWA CEO announces a great program in partnership with AAG, for pilots to go to PSA with all kinds of financial incentives.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

If APC is the pulse of the pilot group, the pilot group is unwilling to accept 737 rates of pay - looking for career earnings more in line with the Big 3 despite type of aircraft operated. Time will tell…

In line with big 3 widebody pay?

 

[Crockrocket94]

Any chance TFP changes to regular flight block hours? Or unlikely?


Y’all are too confusing to figure out pay-wise.

Nope. Not in this cycle.

 

[///AMG]

Thanks for the explanation @ZapBrannigan !

 

[Skåning]

the pilot group is unwilling to accept 737 rates of pay - looking for career earnings more in line with the Big 3 despite type of aircraft operated. Time will tell…

Wow that’s a bold move cotton…

but I hope they get it, getting fat stacks helps everyone

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Good luck to you all. This is a very demoralizing time at any airline going through contract negotiations. Check in with your friends. Be kind to yourself. Feel free to ping me if you want to chat.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

10 days to go. From the union update it sounds like a lot of progress has been made but still likely too much remaining to finish in the three remaining days of mediated talks. Company also threw some things in there that some pilots consider concessionary, like coterminals. The longer the timeline is extended the angrier the pilot group seems to get. I hear more and more pilots stating that industry leading 737 rates isn’t enough, but instead they want industry leading career earnings. No matter how good a TA ultimately is, I don’t believe it’s passage is a foregone conclusion anymore.

Union also wants all outstanding grievances resolved befor they agree to an AIP. I suspect that due to the progress, the 30th will come and go without an agreement or a release. NMB will continue to be satisfied with a few days of negotiations every week or two, and once the holidays are in the rear view mirror the company will have very little incentive to settle anytime soon.

 

[🦈💜]

10 days to go. From the union update it sounds like a lot of progress has been made but still likely too much remaining to finish in the three remaining days of mediated talks. Company also threw some things in there that some pilots consider concessionary, like coterminals. The longer the timeline is extended the angrier the pilot group seems to get. I hear more and more pilots stating that industry leading 737 rates isn’t enough, but instead they want industry leading career earnings. No matter how good a TA ultimately is, I don’t believe it’s passage is a foregone conclusion anymore.

Union also wants all outstanding grievances resolved befor they agree to an AIP. I suspect that due to the progress, the 30th will come and go without an agreement or a release. NMB will continue to be satisfied with a few days of negotiations every week or two, and once the holidays are in the rear view mirror the company will have very little incentive to settle anytime soon.

Good luck, you guys.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Good luck. Been there and it sucks. Our management stalled for over 5 years to purposely push us into an arbitrated contract and they’re still struggling with pilot retention issues because of it. Hopefully this can be settled with something for you guys to vote on.

 

[Crockrocket94]

Gotta love the rumors starting to really percolate...

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Gotta love the rumors starting to really percolate...

It's gonna be a LOOOOOOONG month of roadshows and voting.

The guys who have already decided how they're going to vote will preach from their bully pulpit, "WE SHOULD BE PAID $500 PER HOUR TO FLY THIS NARROWBODY AIRPLANE WITH NO PREMIUM CABIN AND NO ROOM FOR CARGO.

WE SHOULD ONLY HAVE TO WORK FROM TUESDAY THROUGH THURSDAY EXCEPT FOR HOLIDAYS WHEN WE GET PAID PREMIUM TO STAY HOME!

WE SHOULD HAVE A WEEK OF VACATION EVERY MONTH, WITH OVERLAP DROPS SO WE ARE OFF 3 WEEKS PER MONTH.

WE COULD HAVE IT ALL IF IT WERENT FOR YOU YESSIES!"

or..

"DONT KILL THE GOOSE THAT LAID THE GOLDEN EGG! THIS IS THE BEST RETIREMENT JOB IVE EVER HAD!

WE NEVER COMPLAINED ABOUT CREW FOOD OR HOTELS WHEN I WAS FIGHTING SADAM OVER MACHO GRANDE!

AT THE ACADEMY THEY TAUGHT US THAT THE GOOD OF THE MANY OUTWEIGHS THE GOOD OF THE FEW.

DONT FORGET ABOUT THE TIME VALUE OF MONEY. AND SOMETHING SOMETHING HERB!"

ugh... yup. Gonna be a long month. Bring earplugs and a Kindle.

 

[arkflyr]

I got my first choice of schedules next month and the captain I'm paired up with is super chill. Thank the flying spaghetti monster.