Stopping the Slide

[kellwolf]

Personally, I think anything over 70 seats should be a mainline aircraft. Hell, if we want to look at it in a pessimistic way, I'm sure I could start an airline tomorrow full of wannabes that would PAY US Air to fly those -900s. Fact is, someone has to take a stand, and I'm glad AWAC and PSA are taking one. I've got a strange feeling Mesaba isn't going to be around much longer. Just about everyone I've talked to over there would rather burn the place down than work for sub-standard wages. If I were in their shoes, I'd do the same thing. I MAY be in there shoes soon, though. I'm sure the NWA gunsights will fall over here before long and the "cost cutting" will begin.....

 

[Seggy]

Personally, I think anything over 70 seats should be a mainline aircraft. Hell, if we want to look at it in a pessimistic way, I'm sure I could start an airline tomorrow full of wannabes that would PAY US Air to fly those -900s. Fact is, someone has to take a stand, and I'm glad AWAC and PSA are taking one. I've got a strange feeling Mesaba isn't going to be around much longer. Just about everyone I've talked to over there would rather burn the place down than work for sub-standard wages. If I were in their shoes, I'd do the same thing. I MAY be in there shoes soon, though. I'm sure the NWA gunsights will fall over here before long and the "cost cutting" will begin.....

Do you guys share any routes? Has NWA asked you guys to be ready if they go on strike?

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

You didn't "stop the slide", you just slid yourself off into a backwater.

*Somebody* is going to do the flying at a rate US Air likes and that means some pilot group is going to fly them, probably for less. Somebody is going to continue the slide, it's just that the PSA MEC (not the pilot group) has decided they don't want to do the flying.

If I had any faith there was a bottom here then maybe this would be worth applauding. Maybe Mesaba will be the bottom, we'll see, but this "stand" by PSA "pilots" means nothing.

This isn't flightInfo so I'll be nice. But I smell a Mesa tool!!!

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

Do you guys share any routes? Has NWA asked you guys to be ready if they go on strike?

There talking with their MEC to find out if they're asked by NWA to fly additional routes if XJ does strike that it won't be struckwork.

 

[kellwolf]

We have similar routes (like we fly CRJs from DTW-MLI, Mesaba will fly a Saab on that route at a different time of day), but that's as close as it gets. Essentially, I think it comes down to if NWA asks us to fly the Saab time slot with a CRJ, that's a no-no. No requests have been made yet, but all the pilots that I know over here just want to make sure we can give the Mesaba pilots as much help as we can legally.

 

[Seggy]

We have similar routes (like we fly CRJs from DTW-MLI, Mesaba will fly a Saab on that route at a different time of day), but that's as close as it gets. Essentially, I think it comes down to if NWA asks us to fly the Saab time slot with a CRJ, that's a no-no. No requests have been made yet, but all the pilots that I know over here just want to make sure we can give the Mesaba pilots as much help as we can legally.

What about if they want you to do a Mesaba AVRO run?

 

[Seggy]

This isn't flightInfo so I'll be nice. But I smell a Mesa tool!!!

I agree Max. As a whole Mesa has an awesome group of pilots and are extremely helpful to offline jumpseaters. But some are drinking Joe Os Kool Aid.

 

[kellwolf]

What about if they want you to do a Mesaba AVRO run?

Well, first they'd have to cut capacity on the flight since the Avros hold more than the CRJ. Second, Mesaba is cutting down to 49 Saabs even if they stay in business. The Avros are being phased out slowly but surely.

If they asked us to fly an Avro route, it would still be a no go if Mesaba was still flying it at the time of the strike.

 

[Seggy]

Well, first they'd have to cut capacity on the flight since the Avros hold more than the CRJ. Second, Mesaba is cutting down to 49 Saabs even if they stay in business. The Avros are being phased out slowly but surely.

If they asked us to fly an Avro route, it would still be a no go if Mesaba was still flying it at the time of the strike.

I hope Mesaba can work things out. If not is going to get REAL ugly. How you liking PCL?

 

[blee256]

You didn't "stop the slide", you just slid yourself off into a backwater.

*Somebody* is going to do the flying at a rate US Air likes and that means some pilot group is going to fly them, probably for less. Somebody is going to continue the slide, it's just that the PSA MEC (not the pilot group) has decided they don't want to do the flying.

If I had any faith there was a bottom here then maybe this would be worth applauding. Maybe Mesaba will be the bottom, we'll see, but this "stand" by PSA "pilots" means nothing.

If we all had that attitude we would all be FUBAR'd. Instead of criticizing PSA for not take the jets just because someone else will, why dont you just wait until someone actually does accept that job for substandard wages. Sywest gets crap for flyuing 70seaters for 50 seat wages. Can you imagine the industry backlash when they find out someone is aflying a "mainline" size aircraft for 50 seat wages. And keep in mind that PSA wages arent even close to Skywests. According to your analysis, is AWAC just as pathetic for turning down paycuts to Pinnacle's flying?

 

[blee256]

Do you guys share any routes? Has NWA asked you guys to be ready if they go on strike?

If XJ strikes, which I think they will, but I hope it doesnt come down to it. Pinnacle will appoint a Stike Coordinator to make sure we dont fly struck work.

 

[kellwolf]

I hope Mesaba can work things out. If not is going to get REAL ugly. How you liking PCL?

So far, so good. Haven't done much flying since I got off of IOE. I've been either sitting reserve at home, sitting reserve at the Holiday Inn Express in MSP or off. I think I've flown 3 trips and 2 DHs since I finished training. All that's gonna change next month it looks like....

 

[EDUC8-or]

This isn't flightInfo so I'll be nice. But I smell a Mesa tool!!!

Yeah, I checked out some of the other posts and he's a Mesa pilot.

Also, apparently our DO said we will be closing our doors next Wednesday since we wouldn't take the 900's without negotiation. (It was a take it or leave it deal) Now our management has resorted to bullying tactics, how wonderful.

That's a whole lot of flying for Airways to cover in 9 days. Maybe 9 months. Things are going to get interesting over here.

 

[Seggy]

Yeah, I checked out some of the other posts and he's a Mesa pilot.

Also, apparently our DO said we will be closing our doors next Wednesday since we wouldn't take the 900's without negotiation. (It was a take it or leave it deal) Now our management has resorted to bullying tactics, how wonderful.

That's a whole lot of flying for Airways to cover in 9 days. Maybe 9 months. Things are going to get interesting over here.

Their saying your company is going to shut down?

 

[CFIse]

If we all had that attitude we would all be FUBAR'd.

Well reality sucks. PSA didn't "stop the slide" - they may have stopped the slide at PSA by putting at risk their business relationship with US Air but the didn't stop the slide in the industry. In fact I suspect at some point in the short future PSA pilots will either cease to exist or take another shot in the pants just to stay alive. I'll bet you something else as well, *IF* it had been put to a full pilot vote at PSA I bet they'd have accepted the flying. You read the rable rousers over here, but the bulk of the pilots in the company aren't posting to flightinfo......

I say again, somebody will fly those 900's for what US Air wants to pay, might be Mesa, might not, but until ALPA speaks with one voice across all companies (and even then the non-ALPA shops will be the wild-card) wages will continue to go down. That's just reality - I'm sorry you don't like it, but there you go.

Where's the bottom - got me, but we ain't there yet.

 

[BobDDuck]

Well, let's see... maybe that's why I titled it "stopping" not "stopped". Believe it or not, it is up to you (if you are at Mesa) to stop it now. But wait, you guys are trying to go get 190s. There are a lot of good guys at Mesa, and hopfully they have a better attitude.

If it had gone to a vote I don't think it would have passed at all. I'm not getting that info from the web boards either. You are right, the bulk of the pilots don't post (and are probably more sane for it) but they do speak up in the crew room.

 

[EDUC8-or]

Well reality sucks. PSA didn't "stop the slide" - they may have stopped the slide at PSA by putting at risk their business relationship with US Air but the didn't stop the slide in the industry. In fact I suspect at some point in the short future PSA pilots will either cease to exist or take another shot in the pants just to stay alive. I'll bet you something else as well, *IF* it had been put to a full pilot vote at PSA I bet they'd have accepted the flying. You read the rable rousers over here, but the bulk of the pilots in the company aren't posting to flightinfo......

I say again, somebody will fly those 900's for what US Air wants to pay, might be Mesa, might not, but until ALPA speaks with one voice across all companies (and even then the non-ALPA shops will be the wild-card) wages will continue to go down. That's just reality - I'm sorry you don't like it, but there you go.

Where's the bottom - got me, but we ain't there yet.

I'd wager a case of beer on your bet...

I gotta back up BobDDuck on this one. How do you know we would have accepted the flying with a pilot vote? I would say about 95% of the pilots I know here were strongly against the proposal. About 75% of the remaining 5% were from the training department (i.e. management). Even most of the junior pilots like Mr. Duck and myself who could possibly upgrade much faster were strongly opposed to the deal.

I'm willing to bet *IF* the pilot groups at certain airlines grew a set we could at least begin to turn things around. I'm not saying the 900's won't come here, but we shall see.

I'm still kind of baffled how you can critisize our MEC (with much input from our pilot group) for trying to take a stand and make a difference.

 

[CFIse]

I'm still kind of baffled how you can critisize our MEC (with much input from our pilot group) for trying to take a stand and make a difference.

Because I think it's short sighted - especially at PSA that exists at the whim of US Air and can be shut down as fast as they can re-distribute the planes to somebody else.

I'm not saying that taking the planes and eating whatever rate they want to pay is an ideal opportunity, but no airline union has the upper hand in the current environment, and in MY opinion PSA pilots would have been better served by taking the flying and living to fight another day. As it is I'm sure US Air is asking themselves "if we can't make PSA dance to our tune why do we keep them around again?" Maybe PSA pilots are OK burning it to the ground - which, I grant you, is certainly an extrement reaction, but I wouldn't be surprised to see PSA disappear over the next few years if they won't handle the flying US Air needs done.

That's all - like everybody else on this board nobody asks me what any company should do, I just fly the schedule they give me. I just don't see PSA not flying the 900s as a victory for PSA pilots or pilots in general.

 

[blee256]

Well reality sucks. PSA didn't "stop the slide" - they may have stopped the slide at PSA by putting at risk their business relationship with US Air but the didn't stop the slide in the industry. In fact I suspect at some point in the short future PSA pilots will either cease to exist or take another shot in the pants just to stay alive. I'll bet you something else as well, *IF* it had been put to a full pilot vote at PSA I bet they'd have accepted the flying. You read the rable rousers over here, but the bulk of the pilots in the company aren't posting to flightinfo......

I say again, somebody will fly those 900's for what US Air wants to pay, might be Mesa, might not, but until ALPA speaks with one voice across all companies (and even then the non-ALPA shops will be the wild-card) wages will continue to go down. That's just reality - I'm sorry you don't like it, but there you go.

Where's the bottom - got me, but we ain't there yet.

So does that mean if you were offered to fly 737's for 35 an hour you would?? Why wouldnt you if you dont someone else will. so come on, agree to fly the right seat of a 73 for 35 and when you upgrade you can be making a whopping, 65 bucks an hour!! If thats the case, you have no right ever to bitch about pilot pay or QOL on this board

Do you work for Mesa or are you a CFIse? I hope you are just flying patterns in your cessna 172 because you are making Mesa look bad. I have nothing against mesa, I have shared vans with them and they have been nothing but nice. But unfortunately Mesa has been the industry whipping boy for years. IIRC, Mesa's CBA expires very soon (either this year or next at the latest) if their pilots shared the same attitude as you do, you better start paying rent in the Industry basement.

Do you know what pattern bargaining is? you might want to look it up. Comair didnt lower the bar by taking concessions recently, the rest of the industry failed to raise it.

 

[CFIse]

So does that mean if you were offered to fly 737's for 35 an hour you would?? Why wouldnt you if you dont someone else will. so come on, agree to fly the right seat of a 73 for 35 and when you upgrade you can be making a whopping, 65 bucks an hour!! If thats the case, you have no right ever to bitch about pilot pay or QOL on this board

You need to try and separate who I work for and what I do for a living from my views and opinions on the state of the industry. In fact frankly half the problem with the industry at the moment is that people aren't willing to deal with the realities of the industry but they'd far rather deal with some other reality that does't exist now and won't exist for the forseeable future.

I don't like that the Delta pilots rolled over, or that the NorthWest pilots rolled over, or that the Mesaba pilots will roll over (you read it here first) but I understand why they did and, given the state of the industry it was probably the best decision for them.

That's why I think the PSA pilots would have been better off taking the 900s. That's why I think if it had been put to a vote, regardless of what people say in the crew room or in public, the PSA pilots would have voted to take the 900s because in the end, in the privacy of your little voting world, self interest rules (see the Delta, NorthWest, Mesaba pilots above).

Let's look at this way - clearly there is an over-supply of pilots, anybody here who was selfish enough to go and get a pilots certificate and build the hours to qualify for an airline job is just adding to the over-supply and they shouldn't have done it, and it's wrong, and they're not supporting their fellow pilots. Now - see how stupid that sounds?