Stop all your business...the president's here
- Thread starter Bert
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PhotoPilot
New Member
Re: Stop all your business...the president\'s here
President Bush showed up here in Fresno last week for a meeting with Arnold. Our flight school essentially became a 'ground school.' They even blocked off the dirt overflow parking lot across the street because it wasn't 'official.'
I'm all for security, but do they really think someone in a Tomahawk (weighs less than an adult polar bear even when fully loaded with crew, baggage, and fuel) is any more of a threat than guy in a car?
First, let me make my disclaimer and say that I strongly agree with those of you who feel that the September 11th tragedies were horrendous and terrible. In no way am I suggesting that they were trivial. Then, I'll say that my current rant is that people in trucks and cars loaded with explosives kill thousands of people every year. People in cars and truck NOT loaded with explosives kill MILLIONS every year. After Oklahoma City, they didn't put roving Temporary Driving Restrictions on automobiles, did they? They didn't close Lake Michigan Drive in Chicago because there was too much risk that a truck bomb might damage the downtown area . . .
After September 11th, planes and pilots have been reamed on. TFRs that guard against a C152 loaded with 300 pounds of explosives just don't make sense when a truck 100 feet away could be carrying literally tons. Closing Meigs field under the pretense of protecting downtown Chicago from aerial attacks by flying Honda Civics is rediculous when there are so many other more prevalent threats in plain sight under our noses.
I belive in National Security and compromises in certain freedoms for the sake of safety. But, for Pete's sake, stop making aviation into the scape goat. While you're cursing at me flying above you in a little Piper because you think it's crazy to allow pilots to fly around in the sky, that rental truck you just passed could have been carrying a load of biological weapons or worse. Not to mention that, while in your fit of air-rage, you just blew through a stop light and almost ran down a group of school children on their way to the museum.
AAARRRGGGHHH!
Sorry. After having finally found a way to pursue my almost life-long dream of flying, I've had four random strangers ask me what I'm doing in Fresno only to end up lecturing me on the evils of general aviation. One suggested background checks for all GA pilots and passengers and remote self-destruct units in all planes. "That way if a plane got too close to a building it could be blown up before it hits it." I agreed wholeheartedly because THAT WOULD BE SAFE, WOULDN"T IT?!?!?!
Don't tell me that I'd better be careful if I ever instruct an Arab student after I get my CFI. Don't tell me that flying is too dangerous. Don't blame me because you built your friggin' house under the approach path to the airport that's been here longer that you've been alive.
I don't get on your case when you mow your lawn at 8:00am every Saturday. I don't lecture you because you and your wife have shouting matches every night with the windows open and the entire neighborhood listening. I don't even get upset when you shoot a bloody firework rocket onto my roof and light my shingles on fire. I just get the hose, put out the flames, and realize that your happiness is worth that slight, insignificant risk. How about giving me the same consideration?
And that, folks, is about as frustrated and worked up as I get. Thanks for listening. Too bad none of you are the people that was aimed at . . .
President Bush showed up here in Fresno last week for a meeting with Arnold. Our flight school essentially became a 'ground school.' They even blocked off the dirt overflow parking lot across the street because it wasn't 'official.'
I'm all for security, but do they really think someone in a Tomahawk (weighs less than an adult polar bear even when fully loaded with crew, baggage, and fuel) is any more of a threat than guy in a car?
First, let me make my disclaimer and say that I strongly agree with those of you who feel that the September 11th tragedies were horrendous and terrible. In no way am I suggesting that they were trivial. Then, I'll say that my current rant is that people in trucks and cars loaded with explosives kill thousands of people every year. People in cars and truck NOT loaded with explosives kill MILLIONS every year. After Oklahoma City, they didn't put roving Temporary Driving Restrictions on automobiles, did they? They didn't close Lake Michigan Drive in Chicago because there was too much risk that a truck bomb might damage the downtown area . . .
After September 11th, planes and pilots have been reamed on. TFRs that guard against a C152 loaded with 300 pounds of explosives just don't make sense when a truck 100 feet away could be carrying literally tons. Closing Meigs field under the pretense of protecting downtown Chicago from aerial attacks by flying Honda Civics is rediculous when there are so many other more prevalent threats in plain sight under our noses.
I belive in National Security and compromises in certain freedoms for the sake of safety. But, for Pete's sake, stop making aviation into the scape goat. While you're cursing at me flying above you in a little Piper because you think it's crazy to allow pilots to fly around in the sky, that rental truck you just passed could have been carrying a load of biological weapons or worse. Not to mention that, while in your fit of air-rage, you just blew through a stop light and almost ran down a group of school children on their way to the museum.
AAARRRGGGHHH!
Sorry. After having finally found a way to pursue my almost life-long dream of flying, I've had four random strangers ask me what I'm doing in Fresno only to end up lecturing me on the evils of general aviation. One suggested background checks for all GA pilots and passengers and remote self-destruct units in all planes. "That way if a plane got too close to a building it could be blown up before it hits it." I agreed wholeheartedly because THAT WOULD BE SAFE, WOULDN"T IT?!?!?!
Don't tell me that I'd better be careful if I ever instruct an Arab student after I get my CFI. Don't tell me that flying is too dangerous. Don't blame me because you built your friggin' house under the approach path to the airport that's been here longer that you've been alive.
I don't get on your case when you mow your lawn at 8:00am every Saturday. I don't lecture you because you and your wife have shouting matches every night with the windows open and the entire neighborhood listening. I don't even get upset when you shoot a bloody firework rocket onto my roof and light my shingles on fire. I just get the hose, put out the flames, and realize that your happiness is worth that slight, insignificant risk. How about giving me the same consideration?
And that, folks, is about as frustrated and worked up as I get. Thanks for listening. Too bad none of you are the people that was aimed at . . .
tonyw
Well-Known Member
Re: Stop all your business...the president\'s here
So....how do you really feel?
I can't believe how people are so paranoid about airplanes when a Ford Excursion, packed with far more explosives, can cruise right on down by any government building without anyone saying a word.
Unbelievable.
So....how do you really feel?
I can't believe how people are so paranoid about airplanes when a Ford Excursion, packed with far more explosives, can cruise right on down by any government building without anyone saying a word.
Unbelievable.
davetheflyer
New Member
Re: Stop all your business...the president\'s here
[ QUOTE ]
Leaveit to the republican to know what pigs think...
[/ QUOTE ]
That could refer to all politicians in general. BTW, I'm not Republican, just conservative. My comment was an Animal House reference in case anyone missed it.
[ QUOTE ]
Leaveit to the republican to know what pigs think...
[/ QUOTE ]
That could refer to all politicians in general. BTW, I'm not Republican, just conservative. My comment was an Animal House reference in case anyone missed it.
gay_pilot18
New Member
Re: Stop all your business...the president\'s here
Somewhat off topic but not really.....Why have we American's become so damn afraid to voice our true feelings without fear of reprisal or being labeled a traitor for actually having a different opinion then our current adminstrion.
Last time I checked this country was formed on the principles of free speech. So sorry if whatever I say offends people (not necessarily in here) but if so deal with it already....
Everett
Swimming in controversy....yet again.
P.S. I am aware that this "thread" started off as a joke so no need to tell me to chill. Just responding to stuff and how people would say something maybe anti current adminstration then have to give some legal disclaimer to keep the peace. It all has to stop....Freedom of speech.
Somewhat off topic but not really.....Why have we American's become so damn afraid to voice our true feelings without fear of reprisal or being labeled a traitor for actually having a different opinion then our current adminstrion.
Last time I checked this country was formed on the principles of free speech. So sorry if whatever I say offends people (not necessarily in here) but if so deal with it already....
Everett
Swimming in controversy....yet again.
P.S. I am aware that this "thread" started off as a joke so no need to tell me to chill. Just responding to stuff and how people would say something maybe anti current adminstration then have to give some legal disclaimer to keep the peace. It all has to stop....Freedom of speech.
Re: Stop all your business...the president\'s here
[ QUOTE ]
Somewhat off topic but not really.....Why have we American's become so damn afraid to voice our true feelings without fear of reprisal or being labeled a traitor for actually having a different opinion then our current adminstrion.
[/ QUOTE ]
TRAITOR!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously. Point well made.
[ QUOTE ]
Somewhat off topic but not really.....Why have we American's become so damn afraid to voice our true feelings without fear of reprisal or being labeled a traitor for actually having a different opinion then our current adminstrion.
[/ QUOTE ]
TRAITOR!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously. Point well made.
Sprint100
Well-Known Member
Re: Stop all your business...the president\'s here
[ QUOTE ]
Why have we American's become so damn afraid to voice our true feelings without fear of reprisal or being labeled a traitor for actually having a different opinion then our current adminstrion.
[/ QUOTE ]
Because then, you'll also be labeled as an angry black man (if you are an african-american male voicing your opinion)LOL. No one needs to picket JC or anything because I have gotten labeled as such many times and probably still am.
Seriously though, it is a shame that so many are afraid ,for whatever reason, to go against the grain. I would rather see productive views using free speech as a defense other than obscene artists. Seems like most have forgotten that little thingy on free speech LOL!!!!!!!!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
Why have we American's become so damn afraid to voice our true feelings without fear of reprisal or being labeled a traitor for actually having a different opinion then our current adminstrion.
[/ QUOTE ]
Because then, you'll also be labeled as an angry black man (if you are an african-american male voicing your opinion)LOL. No one needs to picket JC or anything because I have gotten labeled as such many times and probably still am.
Seriously though, it is a shame that so many are afraid ,for whatever reason, to go against the grain. I would rather see productive views using free speech as a defense other than obscene artists. Seems like most have forgotten that little thingy on free speech LOL!!!!!!!!!!!
tonyw
Well-Known Member
Re: Stop all your business...the president\'s here
[ QUOTE ]
Why have we American's become so damn afraid to voice our true feelings without fear of reprisal or being labeled a traitor for actually having a different opinion then our current adminstrion.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, there were tens of thousands of people in the DC area yesterday who weren't afraid of being labeled a traitor.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17636-2003Oct25.html
Some of the protestors are a little wacked out, sure. But some of them were people who have family serving in Iraq and I don't think that anyone who has a relative putting his or her ass on the line in Iraq can be labeled a traitor for protesting.
[ QUOTE ]
Why have we American's become so damn afraid to voice our true feelings without fear of reprisal or being labeled a traitor for actually having a different opinion then our current adminstrion.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, there were tens of thousands of people in the DC area yesterday who weren't afraid of being labeled a traitor.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17636-2003Oct25.html
Some of the protestors are a little wacked out, sure. But some of them were people who have family serving in Iraq and I don't think that anyone who has a relative putting his or her ass on the line in Iraq can be labeled a traitor for protesting.
pilot602
If specified, this will replace the title that
Re: Stop all your business...the president\'s here
[ QUOTE ]
Somewhat off topic but not really.....Why have we American's become so damn afraid to voice our true feelings without fear of reprisal or being labeled a traitor for actually having a different opinion then our current adminstrion.
[/ QUOTE ]
coughPatriot Act 1&2cough
[ QUOTE ]
Somewhat off topic but not really.....Why have we American's become so damn afraid to voice our true feelings without fear of reprisal or being labeled a traitor for actually having a different opinion then our current adminstrion.
[/ QUOTE ]
coughPatriot Act 1&2cough
davetheflyer
New Member
Re: Stop all your business...the president\'s here
[ QUOTE ]
Somewhat off topic but not really.....Why have we American's become so damn afraid to voice our true feelings without fear of reprisal or being labeled a traitor for actually having a different opinion then our current adminstrion.
Last time I checked this country was formed on the principles of free speech. So sorry if whatever I say offends people (not necessarily in here) but if so deal with it already....
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree that we have freedom of speech. I think, however, that the fear of being labelled a traitor is out of place. I don't recall anyone being labelled a traitor.
Maybe this fear will cause some liberals to have second thoughts before they call conservatives racists, bigots, homophobes, pawns of the rich, or basically intolerant because we disagree.
I'm not saying that either side is right to call the other names. In fact, I'm saying that both are wrong.
[ QUOTE ]
Somewhat off topic but not really.....Why have we American's become so damn afraid to voice our true feelings without fear of reprisal or being labeled a traitor for actually having a different opinion then our current adminstrion.
Last time I checked this country was formed on the principles of free speech. So sorry if whatever I say offends people (not necessarily in here) but if so deal with it already....
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree that we have freedom of speech. I think, however, that the fear of being labelled a traitor is out of place. I don't recall anyone being labelled a traitor.
Maybe this fear will cause some liberals to have second thoughts before they call conservatives racists, bigots, homophobes, pawns of the rich, or basically intolerant because we disagree.
I'm not saying that either side is right to call the other names. In fact, I'm saying that both are wrong.
ready2fly
Well-Known Member
Re: Stop all your business...the president\'s here
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe this fear will cause some liberals to have second thoughts before they call conservatives racists, bigots, homophobes, pawns of the rich, or basically intolerant because we disagree.
[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, so that's the real reason for the Patriot Act - because Liberals call Conservatives names.
FWIW - most of the conservatives I know are not any of the aforementioned - yet, sadly, those who speak the loudest for their "side".... come across that way.
That's why the term "hypocrit" gets thrown around so much by us Libs in reference to the Right (Reich).
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe this fear will cause some liberals to have second thoughts before they call conservatives racists, bigots, homophobes, pawns of the rich, or basically intolerant because we disagree.
[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, so that's the real reason for the Patriot Act - because Liberals call Conservatives names.
FWIW - most of the conservatives I know are not any of the aforementioned - yet, sadly, those who speak the loudest for their "side".... come across that way.
That's why the term "hypocrit" gets thrown around so much by us Libs in reference to the Right (Reich).
Sprint100
Well-Known Member
Re: Stop all your business...the president\'s here
[ QUOTE ]
Okay, so that's the real reason for the Patriot Act - because Liberals call Conservatives names.
[/ QUOTE ]
On the serious tip: the quotation above is reason #1 for why most don't speak up. To show our disagreement with something, we make that something seem elementary/childish/belittled.
[ QUOTE ]
Okay, so that's the real reason for the Patriot Act - because Liberals call Conservatives names.
[/ QUOTE ]
On the serious tip: the quotation above is reason #1 for why most don't speak up. To show our disagreement with something, we make that something seem elementary/childish/belittled.
ready2fly
Well-Known Member
Re: Stop all your business...the president\'s here
That's my point, Sprint... it's childish to claim that (in so many words) that "maybe the Patriot Act will make "Liberals" stop calling us bad names".
"Liberal" is used in the same vain as "Communist" "Hippie" "Bleeding Heart"... so, to say that the Left is being "childish" is quite frankly - hypocritical.
When those of us on the Left spoke up and said that we did not support this war in Iraq BEFORE it happened - we were all but point blank called "UnAmerican" and "UnPatriotic".
Those exact words may not have been used on this site, but the sentiment was most definitely inferred...simply because we chose not to believe the rhetoric from this administration and made our decisions on our own.
The Patriot Act is nothing more than an errosion of Civil Liberties. For the Right - or members of the Right - to claim that it's merely a weapon to make the Left "stop calling names" is beyond childish.
Rediculous.... BUT - knowing Dave, his comment was more than likely tongue in cheek.
But, that's just my own take. Your mileage may vary.
R2F
That's my point, Sprint... it's childish to claim that (in so many words) that "maybe the Patriot Act will make "Liberals" stop calling us bad names".
"Liberal" is used in the same vain as "Communist" "Hippie" "Bleeding Heart"... so, to say that the Left is being "childish" is quite frankly - hypocritical.
When those of us on the Left spoke up and said that we did not support this war in Iraq BEFORE it happened - we were all but point blank called "UnAmerican" and "UnPatriotic".
Those exact words may not have been used on this site, but the sentiment was most definitely inferred...simply because we chose not to believe the rhetoric from this administration and made our decisions on our own.
The Patriot Act is nothing more than an errosion of Civil Liberties. For the Right - or members of the Right - to claim that it's merely a weapon to make the Left "stop calling names" is beyond childish.
Rediculous.... BUT - knowing Dave, his comment was more than likely tongue in cheek.
But, that's just my own take. Your mileage may vary.
R2F
tonyw
Well-Known Member
Re: Stop all your business...the president\'s here
[ QUOTE ]
The Patriot Act is nothing more than an errosion of Civil Liberties. For the Right - or members of the Right - to claim that it's merely a weapon to make the Left "stop calling names" is beyond childish.
[/ QUOTE ]
You wanna know something funny? The Patriot act has folks like the ACLU on the left and folks like Bob Barr, the Congressman who prosecuted Clinton during his impeachment, both crying foul and working to get provisions of it overturned.
Now how often do you see that happening?
And I agree with both of them that the Patriot act has some serious problems. Did you know, for example, that if you go to the library and check out say, the Anarchist's Cookbook, the FBI can find out? So the FBI can now monitor what books I read? Ridiculous, and un-American, if you ask me.
[ QUOTE ]
The Patriot Act is nothing more than an errosion of Civil Liberties. For the Right - or members of the Right - to claim that it's merely a weapon to make the Left "stop calling names" is beyond childish.
[/ QUOTE ]
You wanna know something funny? The Patriot act has folks like the ACLU on the left and folks like Bob Barr, the Congressman who prosecuted Clinton during his impeachment, both crying foul and working to get provisions of it overturned.
Now how often do you see that happening?
And I agree with both of them that the Patriot act has some serious problems. Did you know, for example, that if you go to the library and check out say, the Anarchist's Cookbook, the FBI can find out? So the FBI can now monitor what books I read? Ridiculous, and un-American, if you ask me.
