Stay at Atlas or leave for AA ?

FlyinSol0 said:
From what I’ve seen of the W2 threads/my W2, I think AA/DL/UA make roughly the same. 20-30% less is hyperbole.

Rest of the complaints are *shrug* not that important over a 20-30 year career to me. Feels more like the constantly negative guys I’ve flown with for the past ~15 years. There’s always something.

To the OP, I’ve been really happy at AA. I was happy enough at Eagle too, even during the suck, so maybe I’m an idiot. That being said, I think the “job security” is worth leaving an ACMI for the big 3.

Peak retirements are actually 2026, I don’t know the comparisons to UA or DL. Looks like about 6,500 retirements in the next 10 years, 10,500 in 20.
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Y'know I really wish people wouldn't call this stuff hyperbole, maybe if we didn't, and stopped with the "well it's good enough attitude" we'd have a better contract. Really and truly go have dinner with a friend that works at United and talk some shop.

When's the last time you had a <10hr duty day on the NB? Ya, me either. Well at UA there's a rig and you get paid for that.

Got a horrible middle seat for a deadhead? At UA, you get paid for that.

Want to fly WB schedules at a WB rate? AA is by far the hardest place to do this as we have by far the fewest WBs and with 777-2 future unclear could shrink even further.

W2s might be similar, but you can accomplish the same credit a whole lot quicker or accomplish 120+ hours/mo a whole lot easier at DL or UA, but you worked a lot harder for it and it is not hyperbole.

Is AA a good place to work? Yep. Is it going anywhere? Probably not, but let's not pretend we're on the same level as the other two.
 
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DE727UPS said:
Wow. 2.5 years at AA for upgrade. I never would have imagined that. The retirements must be huge. It's hard to argue that Atlas would be more stable than AA, like you could if it was UPS. I would have included Fedex in the argument but I guess things aren't well there. I didn't mind long haul flying if it had long layovers. If you get a lot of 24 hour layovers it's horrible. You also have to consider what it's going to be like as a junior Capt at Atlas. Not sure if they still do Amazon domestic on the 76 but that's a completely different lifestyle.
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It’s 2.5 years for people already on property. Realistically, 5 years for someone hired today. Still great, historically, though.

@747driver Orlando commuting is tough. I know Atlas has made some changes recently, but I think AA is more of a career destination.

Move to a base if you can. I’ve enjoyed my time here, but a lot of that is a function of living 20 minutes from the mothership.
 
Skåning said:
This. Also, 45 is on the older side. The wave was guys hired 3 years ago and you’ll be in their shadow the next 20.
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Crazy to say that what was the normal age for a new hire pre 2022 is now the old side, but that is the truth. In my class, at the age of 35 I was mid pack, couldn’t believe it. Four people were younger than 28.

That is another reason to really consider your home address and how much you want to stay in that address if it isn’t close to a well established base. Unless the OP is good with commuting, moving to AA and getting the 2 year upgrade will cement crash pad /reserve lifestyle for years into his 50’s. That’s a vast difference from current life on the road at work.
 
Soku39 said:
Depends on how Sr/Jr MCO is. I didn't mean to disparage AA completely, its a fine to goodish place to work. Just not great. It'll do for a career, I would just like to never be furloughed and I'll retire happy.
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Yeah I wouldn’t be excited about sitting at the bottom of a 16k-17k pilot seniority list right now, especially not AAs.
 
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word302 said:
Yeah I wouldn’t be excited about sitting at the bottom of a 16k-17k pilot seniority list right now, especially not AAs.
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Sitting at the bottom of any seniority list right now comes with anxiety, especially at a place that isn’t hiring anytime soon. 4 years at AA would equal 20% seniority increase in future retirements alone. I’ll play devils advocate and say that AA is the best option from here on out for escaping the bottom of the list once hired. But… I say that knowing the hire until furlough mentality
 
@747driver if you want, PM me and we can set up a phone chat. I feel like our situations are quite similar. I really struggled with the reasons to leave vs staying. That did delay me about a year in moving over, that ended up costing me substantially in seniority. I’m open to going over all the pros and cons with you and lending any advice possible, but at the end of the day you will lose some good things either way, it’s just weighing those things and how you see your future plan
 
Roger Roger said:
Gotcha, I thought another time this thread came up I was told that they had already peaked as they were oldest pilot group of the big 3. Guess I’m remembering wrong.
*cries in 50 retirements this year*
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Yeah movement ain’t happening for us via retirements. Hopefully Boeing gets their • together. I think by mid year things should start trending in the right direction.
 
Roger Roger said:
Gotcha, I thought another time this thread came up I was told that they had already peaked as they were oldest pilot group of the big 3. Guess I’m remembering wrong.
*cries in 50 retirements this year*
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They did peak already, but still a decent number of retirements for the next decade+

We’re also not retiring any narrow boddies anytime soon, so every delivery is growth.

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I’ll ask you the same question a wise man asked me when I threw in an app at his Air Line and tried to talk myself out of the process, “what made you go through the process of applying?”

I could give you my reason for going to AA or maybe staying at Atlas but as humans we’re all different. You applied and went through the process for a reason.

As far as being at the bottom of the seniority list, it’s never a good time. Folks were saying that during the post Covid hiring boom. It’s all a gamble. The people I know that made a jump from one carrier to another usually wish they had done it sooner. You might not do all the cool flying that Atlas does on the whale but I’m envious of the island flying my friends do out of MIA and NYC.

Whatever choice you make good luck and have fun.
 
The big variable that you cant account for is the retirement age. I do believe we will be fortunate to get away with just 67 and not fly till you die. With that said, I would leave Atlas. Different Strokes for Different folks, but being gone 2 weeks straight would be very difficult for me and I would miss watching my kids grow up. I have no desire to go to some of those lesser known regions of the world. AA has almost any type of flying you could want outside of that. With a little seniority you can have a very normal life and have some good schedule control. Yes, there are some real frustration with management decisions, but day to day it isnt bad at all. You can drop schedule down to 0 for the month if you wanted and sit at home and only go to work if its for premium pay, or you can bust your tail and fly hard and get a couple months off with pay at the end of year. If you will be commuting, id advise wide body flying. Money is good, 401k is good, you can make as much as you want really. THe 2.5 year upgrade is on the 737 in some undesireable places right now, and I would advise not to chase that, but rather go to the widebody were the difference between a junior trip and a senior one is just the layover. More questions? just ask.
 
I don't know how the retirement at Atlas compares to the legacies, but I can tell you as a NB CA my legacy put in 70k last year into my various retirement accounts.
 
GaTechKid said:
I don't know how the retirement at Atlas compares to the legacies, but I can tell you as a NB CA my legacy put in 70k last year into my various retirement accounts.
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It’s not that, but it’s come a long way. Went from 10% match to that plus 2% DC to 12% DC last year, 14% this year, 16% next year with negotiations beginning later this year. Not where it should be, but moving in the right direction. Plus, with this kind of flying most of the retirement is for the spouse.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
It’s not that, but it’s come a long way. Went from 10% match to that plus 2% DC to 12% DC last year, 14% this year, 16% next year with negotiations beginning later this year. Not where it should be, but moving in the right direction. Plus, with this kind of flying most of the retirement is for the spouse.
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16% DC is pretty respectable
 
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