Spirit Airlines passenger zip-tied, arrested after assaulting flight attendants at airport

[Maximilian_Jenius]

Alright Max,

You're the CA inflight at 35,000 ft. FA calls you and says we have a pax and he isn't complying with the face mask. FA tells pax to put it on, but the pax has politely refused each time. He is polite and says he does not want to wear the mask inflight anymore.

WWYD...

No clue, but I don't think that it would equate to the level of an emergency landing. If he's being polite about it. Maybe come out of hte cockpit and talk to him/her. Or talk to him/her on the way out. I don't know the company specific opspec. My current opspec is that if the patients aren't being a danger to themselves, or others we cannot use the nuclear option. If the person in this scenario isn't being a danger. Then continue flying to the destination.

 

[DropTank]

Stop serving alcohol at airports and on planes, and continue to prohibit consumption of own alcohol. So many problems will be solved before they start.

I say stop allowing passengers on airplanes.
They are the real hazards here...

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

No clue, but I don't think that it would equate to the level of an emergency landing. If he's being polite about it. Maybe come out of hte cockpit and talk to him/her. Or talk to him/her on the way out. I don't know the company specific opspec. My current opspec is that if the patients aren't being a danger to themselves, or others we cannot use the nuclear option. If the person in this scenario isn't being a danger. Then continue flying to the destination.

You never come out inflight for any pax issue. The rule being it could be a distraction for a bigger plot so that’s always a no no.

Our policy is to issue the yellow card and continue to your destination. So as long is pax isn’t physical or verbally threatening.

My GUT feeling is these situations are escalating because a pax refuses the mask in flight at some point, and a FA tries to force compliance. Tell them once politely. They decline, tell them politely again, this time, letting them know they can get a yellow card and not be allowed to travel again on this airline. Pax refuses again, give them a yellow card, and then be on your way. Leave them alone. I have a hard time believing people just throwing the first punch unless there was an escalation.


Not a real airline, but at an online virtual airline, I actually had to put a hammer down on a FA. I told him in clear terms the other 3 FAs said he was out of line, and given his story and the 3 FA story, I’m inclined to believing them. And that he needs to work on his deescalation. And to never file a report on his own first without debriefing with the CA first (required per their virtual airline FA manual). He called out sick the next day. Oh well. Bet you he’ll think twice next time before escalating matters.

If only more CAs were like this. We lost it when CAs briefed for decades that “we have your back, you want X off the plane, say the word and they are off!” Nope. Not me. My backing is with you in accordance with the FOM, our policies, and the law. You step outside those bounds, you’re on your own.


Last rant, at a non-real airline, call it a virtual airline, if you are a FA and had a situation with a pax and you requested law enforcement to meet the plane, debrief with the CA! And be ready to talk to the police officer discreetly, after the flight and everyone is gone. DO NOT ditch your crew and head out to the van alone and sit down because you don’t want to deal the mess you know you created and hyped (as it turns out). Guess whose story I’m going to believe?

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

Not a real airline, but at an online virtual airline, I actually had to put a hammer down on a FA. I told him in clear terms the other 3 FAs said he was out of line, and given his story and the 3 FA story, I’m inclined to believing them. And that he needs to work on his deescalation. And to never file a report on his own first without debriefing with the CA first (required per their virtual airline FA manual). He called out sick the next day. Oh well. Bet you he’ll think twice next time before escalating matters.

Lol. . . whut?

All that aside, with the exception of never coming out of the cockpit in-flight. Sounds like my deescalation skills were pretty much on point for this scenario.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Lol. . ., whut?

All that aside, with the exception of never coming out of the cockpit in-flight. Sounds like my deescalation skills were pretty much on point for this scenario.

Plausible deniability

 

[Apophis]

I say stop allowing passengers on airplanes.
They are the real hazards here...

I fly freight. It’s amazing how removing passengers from the equation solves 99% of the problem.

 

[zmiller4]

Our policy is to issue the yellow card and continue to your destination. So as long is pax isn’t physical or verbally threatening.

My GUT feeling is these situations are escalating because a pax refuses the mask in flight at some point, and a FA tries to force compliance. Tell them once politely. They decline, tell them politely again, this time, letting them know they can get a yellow card and not be allowed to travel again on this airline. Pax refuses again, give them a yellow card, and then be on your way. Leave them alone. I have a hard time believing people just throwing the first punch unless there was an escalation.

Banning non-complying passengers after a couple requests seems like a very appropriate solution to me.

But my gut tells me it’s not the flight attendants who are escalating situations. Look at the vitriol slung around by people here at anyone who doesn’t think mask mandates are horrible. And look at who it is that’s going off the rails at school board meetings, etc…

 

[web265]

Stop serving alcohol at airports and on planes, and continue to prohibit consumption of own alcohol. So many problems will be solved before they start.

Can I get an amen? Worst flights I've been on are the ones going to vacation destinations where a delay occurs. More time for people who don't control themselves to drink. No mystery there.

But my gut tells me it’s not the flight attendants who are escalating situations.

I do a lot of deadheading and have seen a lot of both. What often happens is a lot like what can happen with cops, (ACAB toss in for @SlumTodd_Millionaire , save him the trouble) they take an all or nothing authoritative attitude which backs them into an "ego" corner when the person doesn't comply. (I'm guessing @Maximilian_Jenius may have a better way to describe this).

"Respect mah authoratay!" (I'm sure I boogered that one up)

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

Can I get an amen? Worst flights I've been on are the ones going to vacation destinations where a delay occurs. More time for people who don't control themselves to drink. No mystery there.



I do a lot of deadheading and have seen a lot of both. What often happens is a lot like what can happen with cops, (ACAB toss in for @SlumTodd_Millionaire , save him the trouble) they take an all or nothing authoritative attitude which backs them into an "ego" corner when the person doesn't comply. (I'm guessing @Maximilian_Jenius may have a better way to describe this).

"Respect mah authoratay!" (I'm sure I boogered that one up)

ITS A TRAP!!!

Never get baited into an ego battle. If you can.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Stop serving alcohol at airports and on planes, and continue to prohibit consumption of own alcohol. So many problems will be solved before they start.

Nah. At least, I don’t think so; I don’t believe that the onboard consumption is the problem.

It is already a violation of Federal regulations (14 CFR §§121.575, 135.121) to, among other things, consume your own alcohol aboard an airplane, and for a certificate holder to board or continue to serve a person who appears to be intoxicated. I don’t see how eliminating onboard sales by a certificate holder is going to help with the personal consumption or overindulgence prior to boarding issue, which either or, but especially the latter, is where these problems start. The strict enforcement of existing regulations would be adequate to handle this problem. Sadly, the landscape for that is apparently quite complicated, but the big thing that carriers themselves can do is STOP BOARDING DRUNK PEOPLE.

The fact that a station would apparently almost universally rather board a drunk—almost all of these seem to involve pre-gaming and not necessarily result from en route consumption—and kick the problem down line bottled up at an 8000’ pressure altitude instead of following the rules (and probably having to summon the local constabulary, but whatever) is the real problem.

Every passenger problem I’ve had has started at or even before the gate; fortunately, every one of them also ended before pushback with either perfect compliance achieved and a reasonably happy “Cabin secure, ready to push” or the passenger watching us push back, sometimes accompanied by members of said constabulary.

“Why did you push back 10 min late?”
”Cabin noncompliance.”
”Cool, all I needed to know.”

 

[fholbert]

The answer is passenger ejection seats which are controlled from the flight deck.

Imagine hearing this over the intercom: 37B, put your mask on or you will be ejected. FYI, we are over no-where Nebraska.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

The answer is passenger ejection seats which are controlled from the flight deck.

Imagine hearing this over the intercom: 37B, put your mask on or you will be ejected. FYI, we are over no-where Nebraska.

Bringing one’s own airstairs everywhere was pretty neat, no lie.

”Grand Island it is!”

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I say stop allowing passengers on airplanes.
They are the real hazards here...

Said it before, say it again: this is Bay Area Rapid Transit (or, on a bad day, Muni Metro), not Cunard.

 

[derg]

You never come out inflight for any pax issue. The rule being it could be a distraction for a bigger plot so that’s always a no no.

Our policy is to issue the yellow card and continue to your destination. So as long is pax isn’t physical or verbally threatening.

My GUT feeling is these situations are escalating because a pax refuses the mask in flight at some point, and a FA tries to force compliance. Tell them once politely. They decline, tell them politely again, this time, letting them know they can get a yellow card and not be allowed to travel again on this airline. Pax refuses again, give them a yellow card, and then be on your way. Leave them alone. I have a hard time believing people just throwing the first punch unless there was an escalation.


Not a real airline, but at an online virtual airline, I actually had to put a hammer down on a FA. I told him in clear terms the other 3 FAs said he was out of line, and given his story and the 3 FA story, I’m inclined to believing them. And that he needs to work on his deescalation. And to never file a report on his own first without debriefing with the CA first (required per their virtual airline FA manual). He called out sick the next day. Oh well. Bet you he’ll think twice next time before escalating matters.

If only more CAs were like this. We lost it when CAs briefed for decades that “we have your back, you want X off the plane, say the word and they are off!” Nope. Not me. My backing is with you in accordance with the FOM, our policies, and the law. You step outside those bounds, you’re on your own.


Last rant, at a non-real airline, call it a virtual airline, if you are a FA and had a situation with a pax and you requested law enforcement to meet the plane, debrief with the CA! And be ready to talk to the police officer discreetly, after the flight and everyone is gone. DO NOT ditch your crew and head out to the van alone and sit down because you don’t want to deal the mess you know you created and hyped (as it turns out). Guess whose story I’m going to believe?

wait, what? Ha!

 

[zmiller4]

I do a lot of deadheading and have seen a lot of both. What often happens is a lot like what can happen with cops, (ACAB toss in for @SlumTodd_Millionaire , save him the trouble) they take an all or nothing authoritative attitude which backs them into an "ego" corner when the person doesn't comply. (I'm guessing @Maximilian_Jenius may have a better way to describe this).

"Respect mah authoratay!" (I'm sure I boogered that one up)

Agreed, I don’t think it’s an either/or and I’ve definitely seen aggressive flight attendants. But on balance I’d guess responsibility leans towards angry intoxicated people.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

People are only angry because of unreasonable rules.

 

[SteveC]

People are only angry because of unreasonable rules.

I think you're projecting.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

wait, what? Ha!

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

wait, what? Ha!

Yeah, I got all kinds of questions. Like how do you call out sick from a virtual airline? Lol!

 

[derg]

Yeah, I got all kinds of questions. Like how do you call out sick from a virtual airline? Lol!

Do you need a flight attendant in the virtual cockpit when you go back for a virtual pee In flight?