So, how bad is your carrier melting down...
- Thread starter derg
- Start date
block30
Well-Known Member
Could you be serious my flaky little baklava? (Spoken like Nasim Pedrad playing Arianna Huffington).
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
Haven't read anything to that nature on the CRJ side.
adk
Steals Hotel Toilet Paper
It's only an issue on RJs usually. Most mainline aircraft have the jumpseat(s) and their occupant(s) counted as part of the aircraft's BOW so there is no such thing as bumping a jumpseater for weight.
And regarding jumpseaters bumping revenue passengers, if said jumpseater's airline is staffed properly (and it's not the 10th straight day of snowstorm) there should be a reserve to cover the flight if he can't commute in.
Nick
Well-Known Member
Sometimes, they can.
Not common, but once in a while, when the stuff has really hit the fan (like the last few days), one can call crew scheduling and be proactive and say "It looks like my commute is not going to work out despite my best efforts...any way you can positive space me in to work?"
And if the situation at the hub is bad enough, they sometimes do buy a seat for the commuter to get in. Thus making a jumpseater bump a revenue passenger in order to prevent a flight or two or three at the hub later in the day get canceled.
amorris311
Well-Known Member
Tough to do when crew members can't get to base.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Yes, exactly my point.
And his argument is if you don't get that jumpseater on then the flight that guy was suppose to do could cancel. One, as a jumpseater it is his responsibility to show up to work on time and ready, even if it means having to go earlier than usual due to high volume of traffic. Two, the airlines should have reserves to cover a flight that a commuter might miss.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Well then that's poor jumpseat planning on that pilot's behalf. Hopefully he had at least 3 options to get to work (or whatever is the contractual requirement). But come on, Hercules was in the news for quite some time and anyone with common sense would know that coming in a little earlier than normal would be a better idea.
DHing is a necessity for the airline to work and usually is done ahead of time and already 'sold' as a ticketed seat. The problem happens during IROPs when confirmed passengers are getting left behind, screwed, and now desperate to get to their destination, AND the airline also needs to send pilots along too. Yes, you can demand your contractual seat in the back. But if a GST tells me (and I know for fact) that me taking the jumpseat opens up my seat in the back to a confirmed revenue passenger who has already been stranded, then yes I will do it... even for a transcon.
Nick
Well-Known Member
But what we are discussing here, and all that this thread was a discussion about in the first place, was that with 117 now in effect and a blizzard going on for days in the region where a lot of passengers O&D, is having some issues.
Sometimes a jumpseater shows up with literally half a dozen flights to get them to work and something happens on each and every flight so that they do not get on. There can even be seats open a few hours prior, and on-time departures posted up until boarding time, and then and only then does it all start to unravel.
As has been mentioned above, this particular scenario regarding positive space is all about when those reserves have been depleted, for whatever reason.
So, in that case -- the positive space option is sometimes used.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
When things really get bad at my company and they estimate severe IROPs (eg, the Asiana crash) then the company provides positive space (confirmed) tickets to commuting pilots from any VX destination. They do this while still properly dealing with stranded guests and taking care of them too. Usually, our policy is to allow them to rebook plus/minus a few days of the storm/event and most people just do that themselves. That's why when I flew on Thursday morning before Hercules hit, my flight was suppose to be completely full but then in the end we had roughly 30-40 seats open because some people decided to go either a day earlier or a couple days later. More choices for the consumer equals a happier consumer.
Nick
Well-Known Member
It's not poor planning at all.
Where I work, (and I don't commute), commuters who wish to use the protections of the commuter clause must give themselves two flights with seats open that will get them there by report time.
As someone who drives to work, I see little incentive for the commuting folks I fly with to give themselves more than what the contract requires. One, because usually it works out somehow. And two, if it doesn't, they probably don't have a chronic track record of attendance problems, so it's no big deal. Three, FOs don't make enough to care about the slight hit in credit. And four, the positive space thing is still there if it's looking really bad for covering the flight.
H46Bubba
Well-Known Member
Ahhh! I thought you were at Lemoore?
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
It is.
I flew on Thursday morning before Hercules hit. A couple days earlier, our airline sent out a heads up email about Hercules (as if you didn't know it was coming) and it was obvious that airline operations would get screwed up in the storm. My CA for that trip commuted from CLT and he came up the day prior on a morning flight just to make sure he'd get there. He said usually for that trip he could come in the evening before the trip but he wanted to give extra time to be safe. Now you can go ahead and try and risk just two flights before show time, but I guarantee you will be through your max allowed per rolling 12 months for commute misses. A carpet dance will ensue (as it should if you can't show up to work on time).
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
That's precisely what I am. My base is NYC (I cover both EWR and JFK, and rumors soon to be LGA). I live in NJ and drive to both airports. I wouldn't move for regionals because those bases open/close all the time. But once you're at a Major with large bases, it's a different story.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
That mindset carries into other aspects. Then pilots wonder why they don't get hired at [insert major airline].
Nick
Well-Known Member
That mindset carries into other aspects. Then pilots wonder why they don't get hired at [insert major airline].
Actually, they are leaving in droves.
Nick
Well-Known Member
That mindset carries into other aspects.
Look, maybe you aren't getting what I'm saying.
Their mindset is not that they don't give a crap about anything.
Rather, it is basically about statistics and diminishing returns.
If someone gives themselves two flights to get to work that meet the criteria for the commuter clause, they still might have to use that clause and miss the first half a day of work or whatever.
There are guys are girls commuting from some outstation to some hub that have nothing but CRJ-200s all day long. These pilots could give themselves five flights to get to work and they still might end up no-showing because the day's flights become essentially unusable, due to weight restrictions, passengers being dumped onto those flights from other flights last minute, the list goes on.
So if two flights gets them off the hook as long as they don't perpetually do this week after week all year long, then why on earth would they give themselves four or five flights when they still could very well get a no-show? Then all they'd end up with is a no-show and a full day off blown putzing around with stupid weight restricted CRJs.
I'm just thankful I've been able to drive to work the last few years and not worry about it. But there's your explanation to what I'm talking about.
L-16B
Well-Known Member
I give myself two flights to get to work. We are guaranteed the Jumpseat and can reserve it 7 days prior. 5 years of 121 I've never had to use my commuter clause, but have been positive spaces during bad storms.
During Hercules it was on a DHD from PHL-CLT on a 767 and it was half crew members.
During Hercules it was on a DHD from PHL-CLT on a 767 and it was half crew members.