So, how bad is your carrier melting down...

It might not be a pay concession, but a decrease in QOL. Reserve CAs are gonna get screwed with this the most, you will basically be sitting reserve for 2 seats. Union said the company might not even use this part of the contract. Yeah, sure... Ok. Look, we don't need to hire or upgrade when we can fly CAs up to 20 hrs/month in right seat.

Don't feel safe flying right seat? I bet your a$$ is gonna be in the CP office and you will get to take a trip to FlightSafety.

Too many loopholes and loose language in this TA!

NO!
 
Scheduling put a trip on my schedule for today... out of IAH. I deadheaded from IAH to CLE yesterday morning. I understand if they were trying to junior man me into days off, but at least do it from the right place! Emailed one of 'irop' addresses and it automagically disappeared from my schedule entirely. They have zero idea where anyone is.
 
Are you asking if captains that are sitting in the FO seat get paid as captains?

Yes, and right now they're getting paid at 200% their captain rate for extensions.

No I asked "do all FOs get paid CA pay during the time CAs are sitting in their [ the FO's ] seat?"

As in, since you are short FOs, they should be paid at CA pay during the time a CA is occupying an FO seat for operational necessity.

If they are not, it's a concession. Why should someone who gets paid way more than me still get way more for doing my duties (due to company incompetence staffing)?
 
Scheduling put a trip on my schedule for today... out of IAH. I deadheaded from IAH to CLE yesterday morning. I understand if they were trying to junior man me into days off, but at least do it from the right place! Emailed one of 'irop' addresses and it automagically disappeared from my schedule entirely. They have zero idea where anyone is.

I had to commuter clause yesterday morning to start my trip because my car wouldn't start, still not starting now actually, too damn cold. Made alternate plans for transportation to airport today to finish rest of my trip, can't call scheduling via phone, so I send an email last night around 7pm. Finally got a response at 3am this morning. They are way lost and way behind.
 
I wouldn't wish the ERJ j/s on my worst enemy. Best jumpseat I ever rode was the 777 secondary from HNL-SFO. Can't even call it a jumpseat. It's just like an economy plus/business class seat placed in the spacious cockpit.
If you think the 145 jump seat is uncomfortable, then you shouldn't even attempt the Brasilia seat. Those legs to and from Sun Valley were the most uncomfortable I've ever been on an airplane. Also, the jumpseat occupant is all up in everyone's business, and any seat movement requires coordination.

Who are the gate agents at the stations this is happening at? Skywest gate agents are few and far between East of DEN, many contracted folks don't hardly have a single policy down and likely wouldn't know and just make you do that to alleviate their stress during an over sale. And mainline United agents...well...they probably know and don't care. Either way, seeing OO captains reactions to gate agents trying to put a guy on a dead head up front, I'm surprised they let the gate agents do this to you.

A prime example why an airline is really throwing away service when they contract ground handling to the lowest bidder.
This.
 
No I asked "do all FOs get paid CA pay during the time CAs are sitting in their [ the FO's ] seat?"

As in, since you are short FOs, they should be paid at CA pay during the time a CA is occupying an FO seat for operational necessity.

If they are not, it's a concession. Why should someone who gets paid way more than me still get way more for doing my duties (due to company incompetence staffing)?

You want to know why we always lose to management? Because this is what we think of as a good argument.

What you're saying has no bearing on compensation rates.

The solution is to upgrade more FO's, which they can't do, because they haven't hired enough FO's. That's not a concession, that's terrible managing.
 
Skywest does, and I've been burned by this... If the gate agent asks, they can put a deadheader in the jump. It's in skywest's "contract."

Um, no. They can ask, but we are absolutely NOT required to take the jumpseat, and we are STRONGLY encouraged not to by SAPA. The only ones screwing commuters out of a jumpseat when deadheading are clueless tools.

Just because it happened to you once does not mean we all do it. Heck, one of our guys had that happen to them on a mainline flight, where the mainline guy took the jump to get another pax on. This guy knew it was going to knock our pilot off, and didn't care. That's not an issue with that pilot group, it's just one narcissistic ass.

I've been on a lot of deadheads the past year, and have never even been asked anyway. About a year ago I was non-revving out of FLL on United, and volunteered for the jump to get two standbys on. But only after making sure there were not other jumpseaters, and waiting up at the gate until the flight closed.
 
You want to know why we always lose to management? Because this is what we think of as a good argument.

What you're saying has no bearing on compensation rates.

The solution is to upgrade more FO's, which they can't do, because they haven't hired enough FO's. That's not a concession, that's terrible managing.

A long time ago, ALPA got ATL CRJ900 FOs to do DTW CRJ200 flying for the company, paid at the higher rate. It lasted until the DTW FOs found out we were to be compensated at a higher rate than them for the same seat and aircraft.

If the contract doesn't allow it - it's a nonstarter. Why would you want your seat paid to someone else at CA pay when you could get FO premium pay for it?
 
A long time ago, ALPA got ATL CRJ900 FOs to do DTW CRJ200 flying for the company, paid at the higher rate. It lasted until the DTW FOs found out we were to be compensated at a higher rate than them for the same seat and aircraft.

If the contract doesn't allow it - it's a nonstarter. Why would you want your seat paid to someone else at CA pay when you could get FO premium pay for it?

I've only seen them do it when they run out of FO's. It stands to reason that the company would prefer to pay an FO $40 multiplied by whatever the current overtime rate is, instead of paying a captain $80 multiplied by whatever the current overtime rate is.
 
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Um, no. They can ask, but we are absolutely NOT required to take the jumpseat, and we are STRONGLY encouraged not to by SAPA. The only ones screwing commuters out of a jumpseat when deadheading are clueless tools.

Just because it happened to you once does not mean we all do it. Heck, one of our guys had that happen to them on a mainline flight, where the mainline guy took the jump to get another pax on. This guy knew it was going to knock our pilot off, and didn't care. That's not an issue with that pilot group, it's just one narcissistic ass.

I've been on a lot of deadheads the past year, and have never even been asked anyway. About a year ago I was non-revving out of FLL on United, and volunteered for the jump to get two standbys on. But only after making sure there were not other jumpseaters, and waiting up at the gate until the flight closed.

Actually I've been burned by it once, and the 2nd time the pilot was going to take it, but a passenger no showed so he took his seat. I emailed my union's JS committee about it, and their understanding was that if you guys were requested to take the JS, you should take it... You don't have the union protections like we do unfortunately.
 
Who are the gate agents at the stations this is happening at? Skywest gate agents are few and far between East of DEN, many contracted folks don't hardly have a single policy down and likely wouldn't know and just make you do that to alleviate their stress during an over sale. And mainline United agents...well...they probably know and don't care. Either way, seeing OO captains reactions to gate agents trying to put a guy on a dead head up front, I'm surprised they let the gate agents do this to you.

A prime example why an airline is really throwing away service when they contract ground handling to the lowest bidder.

I've been told to JS in ORD, EWR and DEN. EWR is Continental but AFAIK ORD and DEN are United.
 
No I asked "do all FOs get paid CA pay during the time CAs are sitting in their [ the FO's ] seat?"

As in, since you are short FOs, they should be paid at CA pay during the time a CA is occupying an FO seat for operational necessity.

If they are not, it's a concession. Why should someone who gets paid way more than me still get way more for doing my duties (due to company incompetence staffing)?

Or, pay everyone captain pay and be done with it.
 
Actually I've been burned by it once, and the 2nd time the pilot was going to take it, but a passenger no showed so he took his seat. I emailed my union's JS committee about it, and their understanding was that if you guys were requested to take the JS, you should take it... You don't have the union protections like we do unfortunately.

We've never been told that by SAPA, and are in fact told NOT to take the JS. There are NO repercussions from us refusing the JS when we're on a PS deadhead. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

It's unfortunate you are confused about this, even more so that your union is. Sounds like they pretty much threw up their hands and said there was nothing to be done. What your union should have done was talked to our jumpseat coordinator so that the offending individual could be talked to.
 
Cruiserin full troll mode. Surely he cant be serious.

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We've never been told that by SAPA, and are in fact told NOT to take the JS. There are NO repercussions from us refusing the JS when we're on a PS deadhead. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

It's unfortunate you are confused about this, even more so that your union is. Sounds like they pretty much threw up their hands and said there was nothing to be done. What your union should have done was talked to our jumpseat coordinator so that the offending individual could be talked to.
I'm pretty sure at least said coordinator is on here somewhere, too - if not the previous one, then the current one certainly is.
 
It might not be a pay concession, but a decrease in QOL. Reserve CAs are gonna get screwed with this the most, you will basically be sitting reserve for 2 seats. Union said the company might not even use this part of the contract. Yeah, sure... Ok. Look, we don't need to hire or upgrade when we can fly CAs up to 20 hrs/month in right seat.

Don't feel safe flying right seat? I bet your a$$ is gonna be in the CP office and you will get to take a trip to FlightSafety.

Too many loopholes and loose language in this TA!

NO!

That's my point on a lot if stuff. The contract says pay on the CRJ starts on wheel spin. People have told me that the company doesn't intend to use that part...which is great. But until it's out of the contract or amended by a side letter, there's nothing to keep them from changing their mind.

Same argument I use for the "we don't need a union at ALPA, they like us!"

Might be the case now, but won't take much to change that, at which time it'll be too late.
 
I have never been asked by a SkyWest or any other staffer to occupy the JS while deadheading. That's not a SkyWest norm. There are some pilots who'd offer in order to get someone else on, but never have I seen the gate agent specifically ask.
 
About the original question concerning one employee throwing another under the bus -- it had nothing to do with jumpseating. This was one branch of the company (if you will) embarrassing another branch of the company in front of the passengers right at the gate. I won't go into any further details.
 
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