So here's the thing...

rv7

rv7

New Member
So here\'s the thing...

About a month after I turned 18...I got arrested. Looking back it was the stupidest thing I've ever done. To make a long story short, I ran from a cop. I know it was not the right thing to do, however I got royally screwed when it came time to pay for my actions. I got charged with felony evasion of police (yes, thats the same charge that people get when they have 50 cops and helicopters chasing them at 100mph....i only had one cop...in the middle of nowhere...in the middle of the night) Of course I did not want to have a felony on my record so I struck a deal with the prosecutor in which i would get 4 yrs felony probation, 1 yr driver's license suspension, and some community service. Originally she wanted to put me on house arrest ( which is absurd), so what I ended up with was a "good" thing. Assuming that I succesfully completed these requirements, my record would be expunged. After completing 2 yrs of my probation, with no violations, and also doing my license susension, they let me out of the other two years and I am done with "the system" for now. My record will be expunged withing a month or so. My lawyer says that this means that when i fill out job applications that when it asks if i have ever been convicted/ charged with a felony that i can check "no." I will be finishing college in about a year or so and am planning on going to ATP or Ari Ben to finish my certificates/ ratings. From there I hope to begin climbing my way up the aviation ladder an eventually I'd like to fly for a major. I guess I am writing this to see what you all have to say (that is the point of a forum right?) in regards to my plans. Have any of you had any legal troubles in your past? and still made it to where you wanted to be? and what happens if there is something on your National Drivers Register file? ( i don't know if there is, i just printed the form from this website...thanks Doug) will having something there automatically exclude you from the majors? Anyhow, just looking for some good news here. After a few wasted years in college because I wasn't exactly sure what i wanted to do ( almost left college to go to a helicopter flight school); I am hoping that this past mistake won't keep me from what I have finally decided that I want to do with myself. Ohh, and I got a new avatar, so no more jokes about my "cabana boys" !
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Re: So here\'s the thing...

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. . .I got royally screwed when it came time to pay for my actions.

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Did you get screwed? If so, by nobody other than yourself.

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I got charged with felony evasion of police (yes, thats the same charge that people get when they have 50 cops and helicopters chasing them at 100mph....i only had one cop...in the middle of nowhere...in the middle of the night)

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Doesn't matter if it was a brand new police officer in the middle of the desert, and you only run 30 feet! You still attempted to evade the police officers for the purpose of getting out of the arrest. Just so you know, it sounds alot like you're trying to place the blame on everybody but yourself. Take responsibility for what you did!! Believe me, it's your fault, and you did it!!

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Originally she wanted to put me on house arrest ( which is absurd), . . .

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What's so absurd about it? Had you not already demonstrated that you could not obey the law and function reliably as a productive member of society?

You might want to re-word that and say, "Originally she wanted to put me on house arrest, and I'm extremely thankful that she decided to give me the opportunity to redeem myself....
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. You see, that's what she did!!
 
Re: So here\'s the thing...

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Nothing but tough love here baby.
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Maybe I should point out....nothing against you, rv7. I'm glad that you got your gear together!! Nobody is perfect, and we've all made mistakes. But you've really gotta lay off of the "Oh, woe is me..." song...
 
Re: So here\'s the thing...

Ok heres a question for u.
You say that your record will be expunged? What does that mean? You may not have to admit that you have committed a crime, like in OZ its 10yrs after it occurred, but majors will still do a background check right? Once on your record, always on your record, here anyway, im sure US is same.
SO they will see it regardless of if u admit or not.
Right?
I dont know mate, i dont know if majors hire pilots with criminal records when theres so many others without em!

Good Luck

Aussie
 
Re: So here\'s the thing...

I can almost guarentee that on an airlines job application it will have the question, "Have you ever been convivcted of a crime?" It will not say, "Does your record show that you've been conviced of a crime?". You could do your best to get it removed, and then hope the employer won't look too deep, but if they find that it was there, and you claim to have never been convicted, then you lied on the application and guess what. No job. Even if they can't find it, fess up to it and be ready to talk about it. You should check out this book. It has a lot of good information for situations such as yours.
 
Re: So here\'s the thing...

Wasn't there a guy on here last night asking about driving records or something? I remember the things that stuck out in my mind was:

-He drove a corvette since Highschool. (things handed to him instead of working for them)

-many speeding tickets. (don't want a constant speeder flying my plane)

-arrested for drag racing. (oops I killed someone but I didn't mean it, so its OK)

-oh yeah, and he said he stopped speeding now that he is older but he just got a speeding ticket a few months ago. (he still doesn't get it)

And then he finished up by talking about he he likes to drink, ohhh but not when he drives. Wouldn't want to mess up that nice Corvette now would ya?

No offense to these people but when you make a bad decision like that there is a price to pay. You may get off because you have a fancy lawyer that you know or your Daddy can buy for you but in the end there is a price. The price is that when you apply for an airline job in the future and they run that 10-year background check, those "stupid things" you did as a kid that you got out of being punished, become very expensive. Gotta buy alot of ME time to make up for that stuff!

Bottom line is, if you have a record with any blemish on it, why would an airline take chance on you when there are so many others out there that are straight as an arrow?

Not attacking anyone, just bringing up points.
 
Re: So here\'s the thing...

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My lawyer says that this means that when i fill out job applications that when it asks if i have ever been convicted/ charged with a felony that i can check "no."

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Even if it isn't on your record, but if it pops up during a thorough background check they're going to hammer you. Just being completely frank.

But therein lies the rub:

Have you ever been convicted of a felony? Well yes.

Do you have any felonies or criminal convictions on your record? Well no.

I really don't know, but what I do know is that I'd purchase a complete background check for myself, including thorough credit reports, NDR records, state driving records, criminal records, etc before spending a cent on career-oriented flight training; but that's just my own opinion and doesn't necessarily mean that I'm right.
 
Re: So here\'s the thing...

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. . .I got royally screwed when it came time to pay for my actions.


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Did you get screwed? If so, by nobody other than yourself.


<font color="blue">Ok...I thought this might happen. Please note that I mentioned that it was " the supidest thing I've ever done" and " I know it was not the right thing to do,however.." so please don't quote me out of context. I know what i did was wrong and I learned my lesson. </font>


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I got charged with felony evasion of police (yes, thats the same charge that people get when they have 50 cops and helicopters chasing them at 100mph....i only had one cop...in the middle of nowhere...in the middle of the night)


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Doesn't matter if it was a brand new police officer in the middle of the desert, and you only run 30 feet! You still attempted to evade the police officers for the purpose of getting out of the arrest. Just so you know, it sounds alot like you're trying to place the blame on everybody but yourself. Take responsibility for what you did!! Believe me, it's your fault, and you did it!!


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<font color="blue"> It was a brand new police officer and it was in the middle of a tiny county up by Tallahassee and I did not run very far and i did stop on my own accord as soon as the officer was "near" me. I say "near" me because my stupid logic at the time was that if he was not near me (i.e. behind me with his lights on) then "how was i supposed to know that he was trying to pull me over?" And so you know, I attemtped to evade the officer for the purpose of getting out of a speeding ticket, not an arrest. I'm not trying to blame anybody and again I know that it was my fault, but thanks for clarifying. </font>


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Originally she wanted to put me on house arrest ( which is absurd), . . .


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What's so absurd about it? Had you not already demonstrated that you could not obey the law and function reliably as a productive member of society?

You might want to re-word that and say, "Originally she wanted to put me on house arrest, and I'm extremely thankful that she decided to give me the opportunity to redeem myself.... . You see, that's what she did!!

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<font color="blue"> House arrest, for an 18 yr old kid who made a bad decision and exited the interstate because he thought that the cop was too far back to see him exit? Yes, that is absurd. House arrest if for burglars and rapists. And "not functioning reliably as a producitve member of society" has nothing to do with what I did. And yes, I was thankful that we could work something out that would keep the felony off my record. Not only was the cop new, so was the Assistant State Prosecutor, and two months after my case was handled she was fired for incompetency.

Again, just so we are clear. I know what I did was wrong! I can also say that I did get "royally screwed" when talking about my punishment. If you were to compare what I did with what many others have done, you will see that 4 yrs FELONY probation is hardly just.

Here are the details of the story:
I was young and dumb and invincible and thought that if i got off the interstate that the cop would simply drive by and then I could get back on and continue on my way. Once I was off the interstate I realized that he had in fact seen me exit and I flew down a rural road, the road had a 90 degree bend and when i went around it there was a road on my left, the officer was so far behind me that he could not see me due to the bend in the road. So i turned down this road and continued unitl i realized that it was a dead end. The officer later told me that the only way that he knew where i was was due to the dust that had drifted out onto the main road. I was cooperative with him and very polite.

Again...not a very smart thing to do. Young, dumb, scared, and a ton of adrenaline pumping (see scared). But enough critique of my bad decision, how about answering some of my questions?
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Re: So here\'s the thing...

I don't want to play grandpa here, but you've got to take ownership of the situation first of all.

Like if you inadvetently stall an aircraft, you're not going to be able to say, "Well, the airspeed indicator said I was above stall speed so it wasn't my fault".

Any airline is going to look for decision making skills. Choosing to run from a cop, for whatever purpose (and don't take this as a personal assault on you) looks like poor decision making. Especially in small towns in the middle of nowhere with country cops because they get their jollies on that stuff.

I'll be really honest. If it's on your record, you're not going to be hired because your employers liability is too high. If you have a high profile accident, the last thing the airline wants is "Pilot with History of Felonies Kills Seven People in Tragic Crash" and the resultant lawsuits.

If it's not on your record (NDR, state, a full and completely thorough background check), you have a chance.
 
Re: So here\'s the thing...

No offense, but what do you want to hear? "Sure, no problem ... airlines hire people all the time who drive recklessly at speeds well in excess of the posted limit and go screaming down country roads in an effort to evade capture by the police!"

Sorry, but it just isn't so. Does this kill any chance at working for an airline? I doubt it. Does it make your road substantially more difficult? Absolutely. Above all else, you must answer each and every question on any job application or background check form honestly. Remember, too, that your lawyer is giving you basic advice. The job application to be Assistant Fry Cook at Jack-in-the-Box is much different from an airline app. There is a DOT background check form that lists 37 separate disqualifying crimes that you must fill out and sign. The FAA and the airlines take background checks quite seriously.

You made a serious mistake in your past and the consequences of it will remain with you. It remains to be seen how much of an impact that mistake will have on your future.

Sorry I can't be more encouraging, but that's just the way I see it.

And for everyone else out there, remember this story (or the dozens of others like it I've read on this and other web boards) when your buddies are telling you, "Just one more beer, man!" or "Come on, it's just pot," or "Naw, you can drive, bro!"
 
Re: So here\'s the thing...

Don't worry about people picking on you, nobody is perfect and although you did something that wasn't smart you've already been punished by the state. No reason you have to get it all over again from a bunch of people on the internet.

Basically, there are two ways to play this...one is to go in and claim that you've never been convicted or have a felony on your record. Here's my question, when it is expunged is everything gone? What about court records, arrest records, driving record? If everything come up clean you can proably get away with leaving it out of your app.

The other way to go it to take responsibilty for your actions and tell the truth about what you did. It's gonna be quite a few years your going to interview at an airline and in that time you can build up a better record. Let's say I'm looking at two applicaints, you, who did something stupid ten years ago when they were 18, and since then have no tickets, good grades, passed all checkrides, etc, and takes responsbilty for his actions. Then there is another applicant that has multiple tickets recently, couple failed checkrides, and makes excuses for everything, I'd go with you.

Most people have some kind of skelaton in their closet. I wouldnt worry about this hosing your whole career, just don't make this a pattern.
 
Re: So here\'s the thing...

And SLOW DOWN PEOPLE!

Geez, is it "Speed Week" on Jetcareers or something?
 
Re: So here\'s the thing...

Well...You got a tough row to hoe. You most likely going to have to fly some 135 cargo or something to get more time. They arent going to take a chance on someone with your record if your time isnt 5X what everyone elses is.
 
Re: So here\'s the thing...

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There is a DOT background check form that lists 37 separate disqualifying crimes that you must fill out and sign.

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what are the 37 crimes that could disqualify you?
 
Re: So here\'s the thing...

I don't think anyone's picking on him, but in a crazily competitive field, if you've got a 5000 hour pilot with a felony record looking for a job and a 2000 hour pilot with a clean record looking for the same job, it's just not going to happen at an airline.

Let me restate clearly, if after his own independent check of all of his public/private records that in fact the conviction was completely expunged, he should be OK because it'll fall into the 'grey area' (well yeah he's had one, but there's no trace...)

But if it pops up at any point during a background check after the court "promised" that it would be expunged, they're going to nail him.

Quite honestly, do what you want, but my final answer would be to do a outrageously thorough background check on yourself before doing any career-oriented flight training.
 
Re: So here\'s the thing...

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<font color="blue"> House arrest, for an 18 yr old kid who made a bad decision and exited the interstate because he thought that the cop was too far back to see him exit? Yes, that is absurd.
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"18 year old" and "kid" don't go together with regards to the law. If you're old enough to drive, you're going to be treated like an adult!!! There's no difference between you and the guy that runs from 100 police officers in a high speed chase!!! Legally, you did the same thing!!!

Am I saying you're a bad person? NO!! Not my place to judge. But I think that you got let off pretty easily.

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House arrest if for burglars and rapists.


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That's like saying "Jail is for murderers". It just isn't the case.

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I can also say that I did get "royally screwed" when talking about my punishment. If you were to compare what I did with what many others have done, you will see that 4 yrs FELONY probation is hardly just.
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It's not just. You should have done jail time!! Personally, I think that alot of people get off too easily. You were lucky. Accept that, and stop blaming the system!
 
Re: So here\'s the thing...

Crimes that would disqualify you for ten years...

(1) Forgery of certificates, false
marking of aircraft, and other aircraft
registration violation; 49 U.S.C. 46306.
(2) Interference with air navigation; 49
U.S.C. 46308.
(3) Improper transportation of a
hazardous material; 49 U.S.C. 46312.
(4) Aircraft piracy; 49 U.S.C. 46502.
(5) Interference with flight crew
members or flight attendants; 49 U.S.C.
46504.
(6) Commission of certain crimes
aboard aircraft in flight; 49 U.S.C.
46506.
(7) Carrying a weapon or explosive
aboard aircraft; 49 U.S.C. 46505.
(8) Conveying false information and
threats; 49 U.S.C. 46507.
(9) Aircraft piracy outside the special
aircraft jurisdiction of the United
States; 49 U.S.C. 46502(b).
(10) Aircraft lighting violations
involving transporting controlled
substances; 49 U.S.C. 46315.
(11) Unlawful entry into an aircraft or
airport area that serves air carriers or
foreign air carriers contrary to
established security requirements; 49
U.S.C. 46314.
(12) Destruction of an aircraft or
aircraft facility; 18 U.S.C. 32.
(13) Murder.
(14) Assault with intent to murder.
(15) Espionage.
(16) Sedition.
(17) Kidnapping or hostage taking.
(18) Treason.
(19) Rape or aggravated sexual abuse.
(20) Unlawful possession, use, sale,
distribution, or manufacture of an
explosive or weapon.
(21) Extortion.
(22) Armed or felony unarmed
robbery.
(23) Distribution of, or intent to
distribute, a controlled substance.
(24) Felony arson.
(25) Felony involving a threat.
(26) Felony involving—
(i) Willful destruction of property;
(ii) Importation or manufacture of a
controlled substance;
(iii) Burglary;
(iv) Theft;
(v) Dishonesty, fraud, or
misrepresentation;
(vi) Possession or distribution of
stolen property;
(vii) Aggravated assault;
(viii) Bribery; or
(ix) Illegal possession of a controlled
substance punishable by a maximum
term of imprisonment of more than 1
year.
(27) Violence at international airports;
18 U.S.C. 37.
(28) Conspiracy or attempt to commit
any of the criminal acts listed in this
paragraph.
 
Re: So here\'s the thing...

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Quite honestly, do what you want, but my final answer would be to do a outrageously thorough background check on yourself before doing any career-oriented flight training.


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That is exactly what I intend on doing. I just posted all of this to see if maybe anyone out there in JC-world has gone through anything similar or maybe knows someone that has. I guess that I need to find out exactly what the expungement process does and who's records get wiped clear.

I also know that there are a lot of younger people on here and some who haven't even started their PPL yet. Just like your mother has always told you "Learn from other's mistakes!"
 
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