Slipping a 172 with flaps

Blackhawk said:
And people lost their jobs and heads rolled over it.
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As it shoud have been. Look at the debacle that that airplane has turned into. I can't think of an airplane certified that has had more issues with loosing something, then having to get an upgrade to get back to the type certificate level, then go through upgrades again, and again and again. IMO, the Eclipse was a great concept, but an absolute POS. There is one that shares a hanger space where I fly contract out of, and it more often than not has the "Warning, this is airplane is undergoing maint" placard on the door.
 
A150K said:
The whole VLJ thing scares me. Not so much in a corperate setting, rather the people who buy wayyyyyyy more airplane than they can handle.
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Been goin' on for a while...too much airplane and too little airman is not a new phenomena.

amjon said:
An instructor/ AP told me it puts too much stress on the sides of the flaps and the connectors break. He said they are made to take the force from the front, not from the side.
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I doubt it. Both the P and the S models slip just fine at flaps 30...lived to talk about it!
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Been goin' on for a while...too much airplane and too little airman is not a new phenomena.



I doubt it. Both the P and the S models slip just fine at flaps 30...lived to talk about it!
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And the N Model slips just fine with 40* of flaps, full forward slip. You get the slightest buffet in the elevator.
 
Cooperate and graduate is what I say. If the school and the DPE say "OMG, no flap lands will destroy the Ozone", no flap landings will destroy the ozone layer at least until you get signed off for whatever certificate you're working on.
 
Doug Taylor said:
Cooperate and graduate is what I say. If the school and the DPE say "OMG, no flap lands will destroy the Ozone", no flap landings will destroy the ozone layer at least until you get signed off for whatever certificate you're working on.
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Actually, one of the DEs here changed his mind on this when I pointed out that it was not, in fact, a limitation- and the placard was not even present in that model of 172. While you need to comply with limitations imposed by your school "no slips in a 172 with flaps" is one of the myths that needs to be busted. Not just because it is not true, but it is indicative of a culture at a school where students spit out rote memorization statements that have no basis in fact rather than really delving into the true science and art of aviation.
 
Blackhawk said:
Actually, one of the DEs here changed his mind on this when I pointed out that it was not, in fact, a limitation- and the placard was not even present in that model of 172. While you need to comply with limitations imposed by your school "no slips in a 172 with flaps" is one of the myths that needs to be busted. Not just because it is not true, but it is indicative of a culture at a school where students spit out rote memorization statements that have no basis in fact rather than really delving into the true science and art of aviation.
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What model was it not present in? I have never seen a 172 w/out it. Are you sure it wasn't mising the Placard?
 
mshunter said:
What model was it not present in? I have never seen a 172 w/out it. Are you sure it wasn't mising the Placard?
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I have never seen a 172S or R with it

edit: In 4 different flight schools in 2 different states total of 9 different 172s S and R

edit 2: I have, however, seen the placard in a L and N model

edit 3: I could just be looking in the wrong places and they may be there... anyone?
 
Doug Taylor said:
Cooperate and graduate is what I say. If the school and the DPE say "OMG, no flap lands will destroy the Ozone", no flap landings will destroy the ozone layer at least until you get signed off for whatever certificate you're working on.
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Huh, maybe that's reason why the majority of the time when I gave a flight review, checkout etc. in a 172 the pilot would miss the runway when having to do a no-flap landing. Some would make an attempt at some god-awful slip like maneuver and end up pointing the nose at the ground. Nothing like completely missing the runway while 5 feet of the ground! If I had my way there would be no Ozone left. Sure, it's ok to not to teach no flappers or slips with flaps or what ever we were talking about... because the CFI on the NEXT phase of training will take care of that! Or WILL they????

BTW, every time I slip with flaps a puppy dies.

The "Cooperate and Graduate" philosophy works in the professional training environment. That's what you need to do if you want the job, right?
In the primary training world (private, comm, IFR, multi..) "Cooperate and Graduate" is just getting by. Passing the buck and fueling the tireless strive for mediocrity.
 
Blackhawk said:
Actually, one of the DEs here changed his mind on this when I pointed out that it was not, in fact, a limitation- and the placard was not even present in that model of 172. While you need to comply with limitations imposed by your school "no slips in a 172 with flaps" is one of the myths that needs to be busted. Not just because it is not true, but it is indicative of a culture at a school where students spit out rote memorization statements that have no basis in fact rather than really delving into the true science and art of aviation.
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Not to mention that the student doesn't get to progress from Rote to Understading, Application, and finally to Correlation ;)
 
TwoTwoLeft said:
Huh, maybe that's reason why the majority of the time when I gave a flight review, checkout etc. in a 172 the pilot would miss the runway when having to do a no-flap landing. Some would make an attempt at some god-awful slip like maneuver and end up pointing the nose at the ground. Nothing like completely missing the runway while 5 feet of the ground! If I had my way there would be no Ozone left. Sure, it's ok to not to teach no flappers or slips with flaps or what ever we were talking about... because the CFI on the NEXT phase of training will take care of that! Or WILL they????

BTW, every time I slip with flaps a puppy dies.

The "Cooperate and Graduate" philosophy works in the professional training environment. That's what you need to do if you want the job, right?
In the primary training world (private, comm, IFR, multi..) "Cooperate and Graduate" is just getting by. Passing the buck and fueling the tireless strive for mediocrity.
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Bravo! Bravissimo! :clap: :clap:

The only placards on the topic I've ever seen all say "avoid slips with flaps extended." I tried to avoid it, I did, but then they cleared me for a short approach...
 
I didn't read the whole thread so maybe it was already mentioned. But the M model 172's and older had 40 degrees of flaps and the N model and newer had only 30 degrees. I'm not sure but maybe if you don't see the placard in the newer 172's, it has to do with less flapage. I believe they went to 30 degrees flaps in 1977's N model to improve full flaps go around performance so they wouldn't get sued quite as often when pilots screwed up the go arounds. I've slipped older 172's with 40 degrees of flaps and all you get is a buffet in the yoke from airflow disruption over the elevator. It's no big deal and I wouldn't hesitate to do the slip if I needed to.
 
DE727UPS said:
I'm not sure but maybe if you don't see the placard in the newer 172's, it has to do with less flapage. I believe they went to 30 degrees flaps in 1977's N model to improve full flaps go around performance so they wouldn't get sued quite as often when pilots screwed up the go arounds. I've slipped older 172's with 40 degrees of flaps and all you get is a buffet in the yoke from airflow disruption over the elevator. It's no big deal and I wouldn't hesitate to do the slip if I needed to.
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I used to fly a 1979 N model that still had 40 degrees, so they must have irked out a few more after 1977. Agreed though, slipping with flaps is a nonevent.
 
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