SkyWest Pilots: How'd you vote?

zmiller4 said:
So of the admittedly few SKW pilots you know, are any of them based in SLC, or are you just going off of second or third-hand info?
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All 3 are SLC based.

And actually. . .

zmiller4 said:
Oh, there's no question the state as a whole is anti-union. Surreal, though, is making a broad generalization about a specific pilot group--not the state as a whole--that he isn't very familiar with.
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Nope, wrong again. I'm not making a broad generalization. I'm telling you, what I have heard, and what I have seen in my experience, with three fairly close family friends who work for SKW, and who are based in SLC - and believe it or not - are Mormons. All three of which, have been associated with my family for over two decades, streaming from the period of time when my father was in the Air Force, onward to civilian days located in the SE. But hey - you don't like what I'm saying, so be it. . .it must be a broad generalization then.

If it makes you feel any better to think that I made a broad generalization, then so be it.

It just appears that you don't like what I'm saying, even though it isn't a broad generalization, so you'll just call it that anyway. . .*shrug*
 
For the record, I have a friend who is from SLC, who is Mormon and he is NOT at SkyWest. I know, that makes complete sense! :p
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Ya think this will galvanize your pilot group as proof that you guys do need a union!!!???

Puttin' in some serious prayer for ya'll!
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I heard rumors of something along those lines but didn't want to believe it. To me this letter confirms the rumors, along with confirming the need for protection.

I casted my vote today.
 
surreal1221 said:
All 3 are SLC based.

And actually. . .



Nope, wrong again. I'm not making a broad generalization. I'm telling you, what I have heard, and what I have seen in my experience, with three fairly close family friends who work for SKW, and who are based in SLC - and believe it or not - are Mormons. All three of which, have been associated with my family for over two decades, streaming from the period of time when my father was in the Air Force, onward to civilian days located in the SE. But hey - you don't like what I'm saying, so be it. . .it must be a broad generalization then.

If it makes you feel any better to think that I made a broad generalization, then so be it.

It just appears that you don't like what I'm saying, even though it isn't a broad generalization, so you'll just call it that anyway. . .*shrug*
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I think most of us here are on the same page with regards to the main topic of this thread so I see no real reason to lock horns.

Surreal, I was probably a little more "pissy" in my comments earlier than I needed to be. Though I certainly think those of us in the pilot group have a better feel for this group than those who are not. I am also just sticking up for my native state. :) My comments were based on many of the pilots I have known here for the past 3 years. Certainly not all are for a union, though many I know are. Some Utahns I know also work for other airlines who are unionized.
Since we added this to the issue later in the thread, many of these people are also Mormon. (Myself included.) If Utah is truely anti union, Then I would wager that it is not so much a religious thing. The Mormon church certainly does not have anti union discussions during Sunday meetings and no doctrine opposing it. Utah is not a state with many industries that have historically been union. (Auto, other heavy manufacturing industries, no major nurse unions or grocery workers like in Cali for example.) I suspect that contributes to an overall lack of experience & knowledge of organized labor in this region. I think the issue is less related to the local religion and more to lack of experience.
 
H46Bubba said:
So where can I see this scandalous letter everyone is talking about?:confused:
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"Ask and you shall recieve, know and the door shall be opened unto you..."

okay...you get the point!

I *believe* this is the later in question:


Dear Pilots,

Yesterday, a reporter called us and said he had heard “rumors” about Don’s case from ALPA. Out of respect for employee privacy, SkyWest typically refrains from commenting on employee disciplinary matters. Now that a newspaper is writing about it, and ALPA is using Don as kindling for its campaign, it is time you know all the facts.

I was also the Director of Aircraft Operations when Don was disciplined for making bad decisions. So here are the facts. Each fact you read in the next six paragraphs comes from testimony given under oath – most of it from Don himself. None of these facts are in dispute (ummm, I think the judge disputed some of these "facts"). Ask yourself, when you read them, whether you think proper safety decisions were made.

In July 2005, profane graffiti was written on a corkboard in the SLC station. The corkboard was removed but the profane message was written again, this time on the wall. Since the problem was not going away, SkyWest hired two handwriting experts to identify the person who was defacing property. (Actually TF, who already had a run in with Don hired these handwriting experts). Working independently from each other, both experts identified Don as the author of the graffiti and his employment was subsequently terminated. (KB fails to mention that Don also ended up hiring a handwriting expert and they said this was NOT Don's writing). Don requested a review board, of which half the members were line pilots. These pilots reviewed the facts and unanimously upheld the termination.

Ironically it was Don, not the company, that blew the “unfit” call. Don had surgery on a Friday and chose to fly on Monday, without seeing, calling or being cleared by an FAA flight surgeon. Although his treating doctor told him he could go back to work, barring complications, on Monday, this doctor was not a flight surgeon and Don admitted that he did not tell him what his duties and physical strain could be as a captain on a commercial airliner.

Don also decided to remove his entire crew that night. They had only flown three hours and had more than four hours of uninterrupted rest ahead of them before their next flight. This “remove the whole crew” decision might have been okay if Don had bothered to make any sort of inquiry into their fitness. However, he never asked his crew if they were unfit. Neither did the crew members tell Don that they were unfit to fly. (Note: Don did in fact have feedback from his crew, the F.O. said he was tired earlier and the F.A. said she had arthritis pain. Was that enough to call his crew in fatigued you decide. It is troubling that KB doesn’t mention this). I would imagine that ALPA would be opposed to having a pilot removed from duty without even a basic inquiry into his fitness. But they have a campaign to run, so never mind the loss of a first officer’s pay, and his right to declare his own fitness, if there are votes to be won.

The fact is that Don made several bad decisions that night and the company disciplined him for those bad decisions. Don wasn’t fired but was given a counseling statement and time off. Don appealed his discipline to a peer review board, which had two line pilots on it. The review board reduced the level of discipline but did not exonerate Don.

This brings us back to the present. After failing to convince two peer review boards (at least one of these guys MM is associated with sapa and you probably know by now where their loyalties stand) and getting a “no cause” finding from OSHA, Don appealed again to another office in the Department of Labor, which held hearings on this matter last November. Last Wednesday, that office entered opposite findings to the OSHA investigation, which has touched off the ALPA propaganda about Don. What ALPA has not told you is that this order and opinion, from one person, is only the second stage in a process that could have as many as five levels of review. As it sits, we have mixed messages coming out of two different offices in the Department of Labor, which we will ask to be resolved by another government board.

This is why I find it so strange that ALPA, whose mission statement is “to promote and champion all aspects of aviation safety" would politicize a case full of dubious safety decisions. I guess the opportunity to attack SkyWest midway through the process, with half the facts, was just too good to pass up. I don’t believe it will work because convincing our pilots that SkyWest does not care about safety is going to be a pretty hard sell. My 33 years as a pilot have taught me that one thing is certain: only those within the company know what’s in our best interest. No outside party has gained or can continue to gain what we can by working together. Remember, if you do not want ALPA in your life, then leave the phone on the hook and do not vote.

Sincerely,
KB
 
Hootie9750 said:
So you're homies with .0037 of the SLC pilot group.
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I wouldn't consider them homies. . .but yeah, so?

I consider all three to be valuable sources of information when it comes to all things SKW. Something wrong with knowing people that work at an airline?

Lee D,

No worries. We each have our avenues for information, and when it comes to someone who is not part of the pilot group - it means that one has to actually contact someone they trust to get information. It just so happens that three people that I do trust, are Mormon, are Anti-Union, and work at SKW. I get information from them, coupled with those on JC, and that's it.

If some SKW guys on here don't like it, then I'm sorry. I'm not part of the pilot group, and instead of just getting the only JC SKW group of pilot's opinion on matters, as well as information concerning present day events I seek out other avenues. Some people appear not to like this type of tactic of information development. :)
 
surreal1221 said:
It just appears that you don't like what I'm saying, even though it isn't a broad generalization, so you'll just call it that anyway. . .*shrug*
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So, what's this then?

surreal1221 said:
Don't use rational thought Airdale.

Especially talking Unions to those from the state of Utah.

They are the devil. (Unions, to those from Utah. . .my experience has shown).
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From the three people you know who work as pilots in Utah, you're extrapolating that people from there are incapable of rational thought when it comes to union issues?

Are you unable to see how perfectly that fits the definition of generalizing? (a little Merriam-Webster for you: "Generalize--to derive or induce a general conception or principle from particulars")

Sorry to get pissy with you, but you have a history of coming on here and calling out Skywest pilots. I listen to and respect people who have in-depth knowledge of the company, but it ticks me off when you accuse coworkers and friends of mine of being incapable of "rational thought" based on *three* people that you know.

If that's not what you meant to say, then think about how what you're typing is going to come across before you post it.
 
Hootie9750 said:
That's not the one Max.
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Maximillian_Jenius said:
Okay...anyone SKYW'ers want to post it then?
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Maybe it is this one. . .concerning ASA's latest TA.

ASA's ALPA website said:
Recent Letter to SkyWest Pilots about the ASA T/A - Can you believe this guy? How wrong can he be? We thought it was worth highlighting the kind of misinformation that is being put out by some management folks regarding ALPA and the ASA T/A. We took the opportunity of commenting with "comment bubbles" within the management document to highlight some of the half-truths and misleading statements.
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And here is the letter. . .from KB.

http://asanegotiations.alpa.org/Publications/SKYW_MNGMNT_PROPAGANDA.pdf
 
Amazing huh?

speedbird83 said:
Well damn. How much propaganda is out there? Something is not smelling right, and I took a shower today. :)
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Hootie9750 said:
Nope again.
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And hootie, may not be "the one" but it certainly appears that they are fighting a pretty intense anti-ALPA movement.

War of words.

And since no one is posting "the" letter, some of us are seeking whatever information possible.

As much as some would like to restrict information gathering and transmission.

;)
 
surreal1221 said:
And hootie, may not be "the one" but it certainly appears that they are fighting a pretty intense anti-ALPA movement.
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There's absolutely no doubt about that. The level of anti-ALPA communications has increased exponentially in the last few weeks.

As much as some would like to restrict information gathering and transmission.

;)
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I don't know if anyone here really wants to restrict information, but posting stuff on a public forum that was from an individual and meant for a certain group of people may not exactly be the style of a lot of folks on here.

You're more than welcome to PM me if you want more info though! :)
 
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