Skywest pilot antics in IAH

[Jimmy_Norton]

I could never be an airline pilot. The whole "that's not my job" mentality would drive me insane. I sat in the back of an airliner waiting to push for close to two hours once, after a one hour delay to board, because there was no one to load the bags. There were about 20 people on the CRJ, and about half a cart full of bags. We could have been loaded and pushed in ten minutes, but it wasn't someone's job to load bags, so there we sat. Absolutely infuriating.

 

[Nark]

Speaking of being a "Mainline ERJ" guy...

We sat waiting for a marshaller's in MIA for 10 minutes, while the the Mesa bird beside us was being loaded. We finally got parked and the jet bridge driver/GA told us the guys weren't allowed to touch a mainline bird because they weren't mainline and explained the union/doing other unions job etc...

Or speaking of IAH.

We parked at the "mainline" gates (C I think) The rampies decided to tell maintenance on our behalf that our blue juice receptacle was broken. Which was rather impressive because we don't have one. We took a delay on that one so maintenance could verify we didn't push with an open snag.

Ignorance, ineptitude, union busting call it what you want.

 

[GypsyPilot]

I could never be an airline pilot. The whole "that's not my job" mentality would drive me insane. I sat in the back of an airliner waiting to push for close to two hours once, after a one hour delay to board, because there was no one to load the bags. There were about 20 people on the CRJ, and about half a cart full of bags. We could have been loaded and pushed in ten minutes, but it wasn't someone's job to load bags, so there we sat. Absolutely infuriating.

If I saw this thread without ever working 121, I'd feel the same - trust me. Fortunately the "it's not my job" mentality is rare. Even rarer are the bad attitudes displayed on this thread. ATN and his buds are living in a fantasy land that you, me, and the majority of the population in the US find unacceptable. To actually feel that punishment and physical harm should come to a guy trying to help everybody out is just disgusting, and goes against everything I believe in.

I also think that I'm VERY lucky that most of my flying is done West of the Mississippi. I have a feeling there's a lot more of this kind of attitude on the East coast. I'm just glad ATN is leaving the profession. Good riddance.

 

[Cal Goat]

Yeah, it's such a horrible thing for unions to try to protect their jobs.

Perhaps the "average joe" should realize that if he had a union protecting his job in such a way, that he wouldn't be out there looking for work along with 15% of the rest of the population while their former employer is raking in record profits and the CEO is making 450 times the amount of money of his average worker. But hey, that CEO has earned that 450 salary multiple, I suppose, since he's managed to increase productivity many times over by convincing people like you to "go the extra mile" and do someone else's job.

But should unions be protecting lazy bums who do their jobs with minimal effort?

The rampers that service my airline at LAX don't ever seem to move with anything resembling motivation. Sometimes we show up early or perfectly on time and we sit in the alley because there's no one to marshall us in. Can you imagine how that makes the customer feel to be sitting within yards of the gate and not be able park?... To say nothing of all the other traffic trying to get in and out of the alley. And when the rampers do waft over at their leisurely pace, they actually seem bothered.

Why would we care about protecting the jobs of people whose work ethic could potentially be damaging the business as a whole? Why? The fact is that I shouldn't have to help with bags, but I am compelled to because the people whose job it is aren't doing it with alarming frequency.

 

[BobDDuck]

Why would we care about protecting the jobs of people whose work ethic could potentially be damaging the business as a whole? Why? The fact is that I shouldn't have to help with bags, but I am compelled to because the people whose job it is aren't doing it with alarming frequency.

Do you know why they aren't doing their job? You are just assuming that they are all inside playing Candy Crush on their phones. I suppose that is possible but it's also possible that they are short staffed so half of the ramp crew is stuck working in the bag room, and the half that are out side are working double the number of gates. I wouldn't want them to run over from what they were doing either. People get hurt on the ramp when they run.

 

[learhawkerbe400]

I could never be an airline pilot. The whole "that's not my job" mentality would drive me insane. I sat in the back of an airliner waiting to push for close to two hours once, after a one hour delay to board, because there was no one to load the bags. There were about 20 people on the CRJ, and about half a cart full of bags. We could have been loaded and pushed in ten minutes, but it wasn't someone's job to load bags, so there we sat. Absolutely infuriating.

You can't just go load the bags even if you wanted to. When I flew at the regionals we had absolutely zero training on how to operate the belt loader, push the cart around or how to actually stack the bags in the cargo bin. I'm sure as hell not going to jump into and out of the cargo bin to move things along. People always act like the crew enjoys being delayed. All it means is a shorter overnight or getting home later on your last day. Its just not as simple as toss the bags in the back and let's go. Those same rampers also push back the airplane among other things. Big picture.

 

[Maurus]

Yeah, it's such a horrible thing for unions to try to protect their jobs.

Perhaps the "average joe" should realize that if he had a union protecting his job in such a way, that he wouldn't be out there looking for work along with 15% of the rest of the population while their former employer is raking in record profits and the CEO is making 450 times the amount of money of his average worker. But hey, that CEO has earned that 450 salary multiple, I suppose, since he's managed to increase productivity many times over by convincing people like you to "go the extra mile" and do someone else's job.

I understand the idea but at least on cargo ramps you learn how lazy some Union workers can be. I can't count how many times I have had the unionized DHL ramp at SFO take a good 20-25 minutes to offload my aircraft (BE99). Pissed me off because I wanted to go home. I started unloading the nose to save 5 minutes. Yes there were at least 2-3 rampers just watching the process that could have done the work. They have twice as many rampers and take twice as long to get the job done than the non-union shops I go to.

You can not deny this happens.

Do you know why they aren't doing their job? You are just assuming that they are all inside playing Candy Crush on their phones. I suppose that is possible but it's also possible that they are short staffed so half of the ramp crew is stuck working in the bag room, and the half that are out side are working double the number of gates. I wouldn't want them to run over from what they were doing either. People get hurt on the ramp when they run.

I don't mind giving the benefit of the doubt to them but when you are essentially watching them play Crandy Crush on their phones you should have a right to be pissed.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Screaming_Emu]

I understand the idea but at least on cargo ramps you learn how lazy some Union workers can be. I can't count how many times I have had the unionized DHL ramp at SFO take a good 20-25 minutes to offload my aircraft (BE99). Pissed me off because I wanted to go home. I started unloading the nose to save 5 minutes. Yes there were at least 2-3 rampers just watching the process that could have done the work. They have twice as many rampers and take twice as long to get the job done than the non-union shops I go to.

You can not deny this does not happen.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

I don't think that's a union problem, I think its a societal problem. I've been to many non union ramps. It seems everybody in this country works just hard enough to not get fired.

And in reality, most rampers work pretty damn hard, union or not. The problem is that the management at all these places just won't hire enough of them.

 

[dasleben]

I understand the idea but at least on cargo ramps you learn how lazy some Union workers can be. I can't count how many times I have had the unionized DHL ramp at SFO take a good 20-25 minutes to offload my aircraft (BE99). Pissed me off because I wanted to go home. I started unloading the nose to save 5 minutes. Yes there were at least 2-3 rampers just watching the process that could have done the work. They have twice as many rampers and take twice as long to get the job done than the non-union shops I go to.

You can not deny this does not happen.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

At least with DHL, anything they do to delay the operation (ground ops delay, for instance) is on them. If you blocked in at the time you're supposed to have, your job is done, and DHL won't come after your company for the delay.

I did throw bags once at XJT, and I stand by it, and assumed the risk. Something had caused half the ground staff that day to call out (some outstation, I forget where). We ended up helping out on an already delayed flight to throw bags (they ran the belt loader and did stuff in the bin), which was appreciated by the ground staff. Not sure if they were union or not.

Like I said, threw lots of bags at Cape, but I believe that was included in the job description. Sad companies will deny OJI for going the extra mile for the customer, so I can't fault anyone for not wanting to do it. I think the industry could really be improved if employees would be incentivized and encouraged to better serve the customer.

 

[Cal Goat]

Do you know why they aren't doing their job? You are just assuming that they are all inside playing Candy Crush on their phones. I suppose that is possible but it's also possible that they are short staffed so half of the ramp crew is stuck working in the bag room, and the half that are out side are working double the number of gates. I wouldn't want them to run over from what they were doing either. People get hurt on the ramp when they run.

They could very likely be understaffed. I still don't see the point in punishing the customer when I have an opportunity to help make their day slightly less annoying. Plus, I'd rather toss a few bags to keep things on time rather than delay things down the line. We usually have hilariously short turn times as it is, I don't want to lose the few minutes I have to do my own job if someone else isn't (or can't) doing theirs.

You could argue that it's a larger problem created by the airline itself, but where I work, I feel like 95% of the details are sorted out to a reasonable level. So I'm not encouraging the airline to be stingy with staffing by occasionally helping passengers get their gate checked bags a few minutes quicker.

 

[Maurus]

At least with DHL, anything they do to delay the operation (ground ops delay, for instance) is on them. If you blocked in at the time you're supposed to have, your job is done, and DHL won't come after your company for the delay.

This is true, but my company requires me to be at the plane for loading and unloading. It really sucks having to wait and watch the circus after my long duty day.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Maurus]

I don't think that's a union problem, I think its a societal problem. I've been to many non union ramps. It seems everybody in this country works just hard enough to not get fired.

And in reality, most rampers work pretty damn hard, union or not. The problem is that the management at all these places just won't hire enough of them.

To an extent sure. SFO could be more of an isolated problem. I just get pissed watching 6 guys take twice as long to unload a 100% filled plane that takes me and 2 UPS drivers to do in 10-15 minutes. I can only find one defining factor for the lazyness. It could just be a local issue, but the guys I talked to had a feeling of Being bulletproof.

Believe it or not, I actually would support a union at CVG for the DHL rampers. Tons of safety issues need taken care of. Also the fact that most of the workers are only part time and paid minimum wage to work in really crummy weather must suck.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Seggy]

Even rarer are the bad attitudes displayed on this thread.

Did you not read Doug's post above? Or do you have blinders to the points, ATN, myself, and others have made in how incredibly foolish it is to do things that may not be covered with OJI?

I also think that I'm VERY lucky that most of my flying is done West of the Mississippi. I have a feeling there's a lot more of this kind of attitude on the East coast.

If you do other people's jobs, things don't get fixed. We had a huge issue in IAH at Colgan as management depended on the pilots for a long time to do aircraft repositions. By doing so and not having a mechanic do it, they were needlessly delaying flights as the pilots would be doing them on short turns, and couldn't get it done in time. One day I refused to do a reposition due to the fact we weren't required to per our contract that was just implemented and the aircraft was sitting out there in 100 degree heat all day without any cooling provided. It caused a HUGE stink, but the very next day, mechanics and supertugs were repoing airplanes to the gate, helping out the operation be more efficient.

Once again, you can provide good customer service in other ways rather than doing someone else's job.

I'm just glad ATN is leaving the profession. Good riddance.

Real professional there...

 

[adk]

To an extent sure. SFO could be more of an isolated problem. I just get pissed watching 6 guys take twice as long to unload a 100% filled plane that takes me and 2 UPS drivers to do in 10-15 minutes. I can only find one defining factor for the lazyness. It could just be a local issue, but the guys I talked to had a feeling of Being bulletproof.

The vast majority of UPS drivers are unionized.

 

[USMCmech]

I hope the rampers file a scope grievance. I'd love to see this idiot get disciplined after the company has to pay out a settlement to the ramper's union for this moron doing someone else's job.

I'll agree 100% with what Gypsy pilot said about this mentality, and why it reflects so poorly.

The "It's not my job" mindset is so completely foreign to me that it defies description. It is an excuse for laziness, pure and simple. The idea that one union worker would take action against another union worker is the exact OPPOSITE of what a brotherhood is.

If a company refused to pay for an OJI that happened while on the clock, then the union should back the injured party, regardless of the circumstances. I know that some of you guys will say that that is not how the system works, but IMHO that is the problem of with the Union system.

 

[Seggy]

If a company refused to pay for an OJI that happened while on the clock, then the union should back the injured party, regardless of the circumstances. I know that some of you guys will say that that is not how the system works, but IMHO that is the problem of with the Union system.

How is it the problem with the union system if a company won't pay an OJI claim? If anything unions are necessary and were voted in on properties because companies weren't paying claims.

 

[USMCmech]

How is it the problem with the union system if a company won't pay an OJI claim? If anything unions are necessary and were voted in on properties because companies weren't paying claims.

Then why would you be worried about a company not paying an OJI claim? If you are on the clock and get injured, it's an OJI regardless of job duties.

If the union doesn't have the balls to fight for their injured members, then what is the point of a union in the first place? The idea of one union asking management to punish a worker from another union is hardly a "brotherhood".

 

[Maurus]

The vast majority of UPS drivers are unionized.

I believe they actually get paid extra for coming to the plane and doing extra work. The rampers wont even do their initial job description in my case.

 

[Seggy]

Then why would you be worried about a company not paying an OJI claim? If you are on the clock and get injured, it's an OJI regardless of job duties.

Did you not read Doug's post as well!?!?!

Companies pay A LOT if money to places like this http://www.fhsolutionsgroup.com/ to consult the companies on things such as OJI and FMLA claims. If the employee doesn't follow the procedures (such as throwing bags when they aren't suppose to), good luck getting a claim approved from these folks.

If the union doesn't have the balls to fight for their injured members, then what is the point of a union in the first place?

Unions do fights for their membership, they are necessary to fight the people that work at places such as F&H Solutions Group and their parent company.

The idea of one union asking management to punish a worker from another union is hardly a "brotherhood".

Skywest isn't unionized. If they were a call to pro standards would be warranted in this case.

 

[USMCmech]

Did you not read Doug's post as well!?!?!

Yes I did.

However I see the union as equally culpable as management in creating a system where employees are only allowed to work within a very narrow set of job duties.

Skywest isn't unionized. If they were a call to pro standards would be warranted in this case.

I don't care if they are unionized or not, I would never call for a fellow pilot to be disciplined for any matter other than safety.

To requote ATN,

I'd love to see this idiot get disciplined after the company has to pay out a settlement to the ramper's union for this moron doing someone else's job.

Clearly you don't know what a brotherhood looks like if you are making or defending such comments.

For the record, this is what a brotherhood looks like,

That's not his job, but it doesn't matter.