SkyWest Pay Proposal Out

Before everyone gets their panties in a bunch, the new (idiotic) proposal mentions E170/175 in the rate. NOT the E190/195. And no, I have no idea why other than hours of speculation.
 
How could a pilot group like yours NOT vote in ALPA?

It dumbfounds me. You're a major airline for crying out loud.

You seriously dropped the ball.
 
SmitteyB said:
How could a pilot group like yours NOT vote in ALPA?

It dumbfounds me. You're a major airline for crying out loud.

You seriously dropped the ball.
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So did 50% + 4 of the Colgan Pilots.

You advocating to your fellow First Officers and Captains why we need ALPA on property?
 
Hang on? They took out the 700/900 override, and THIS is what they came up with? Damn. In that case, this makes OUR 1st year pay look good in comparison. We still suck on the 2nd year pay, but what Skywest is offering 2nd year is barely much more than what our shameful management offered for 2nd year FOs on the last deal.

Oh, and 1% COLA ain't even gonna cover inflation right now. Hell, the 2% bump for most of the guys MIGHT get you up to where you should be now with inflation, but after that, you're essentially taking a pay cut every year.

Edit: Nervermind, I see the charts with the "override" in them. First year FO still makes $22/hr if he's on a 200 or a 900. Sorry, guys. That's just p-a-t-h-e-t-i-c. If this gets voted in, it's gonna be a shot in the head to our negotiations over here.....
 
kellwolf said:
Hang on? They took out the 700/900 override, and THIS is what they came up with? Damn. In that case, this makes OUR 1st year pay look good in comparison. We still suck on the 2nd year pay, but what Skywest is offering 2nd year is barely much more than what our shameful management offered for 2nd year FOs on the last deal.

Oh, and 1% COLA ain't even gonna cover inflation right now. Hell, the 2% bump for most of the guys MIGHT get you up to where you should be now with inflation, but after that, you're essentially taking a pay cut every year.

Edit: Nervermind, I see the charts with the "override" in them. First year FO still makes $22/hr if he's on a 200 or a 900. Sorry, guys. That's just p-a-t-h-e-t-i-c. If this gets voted in, it's gonna be a shot in the head to our negotiations over here.....
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But their management cares, Steve!
 
bike21 said:
I thought it was the general consensus here at JC that 'flying' is not owned. Especially 'regional' flying. I may not like it, but is business and reality.

I am all for giving the Skyway guys jobs and their current years of service pay right now. But I don't run SkyWest now do I?

And like I said, we have beaten them before on an incredibly asinine issue. It is fact. Please stop reading past it.

Oh well, time to get the resume polished up I am growing tired of this game. Tired of apologizing for a lazy & apathetic pilot group. Collectively, we voted no for legal representation and this is what we get. Morons.
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An issue is a lot different than something that effects the company's bottom line.
 
The thing that rubs me raw the most is the uneven spread of the raises. 2.39% for a 4th year CA, 3.02% for a 12th year CA, and 6.61% for a 20th year CA? 0.32% for a 2nd year FO, but 3.14% for a 3rd year FO?

What's Pinnacle's latest offer for 2nd year FOs?
 
Bike21, it appears that management has successfully pulled the wool over your eyes. You never "beat" management on that issue, or any other. They have $600/hr attorneys from Ford & Harrison that develop strategy to make it look like you've beaten management. That way, the pilot group's delusion of the effectiveness of SAPA is continued, and management doesn't have to worry about a union. The truth is, your pilot group has no power, no legal avenues for redress of grievances, and no bargaining leverage. You are helpless slaves to the scumbags in the offices in St. George. It didn't have to be this way, but 66% of your fellow pilots apparently have a combined IQ of 5.
 
Does Skywest really have Ford & Harrison on the payroll? Isn't that the same law firm that led the anti-union propoganda drive over at Colgan? They sound like union busting specialists.
 
kellwolf said:
Does Skywest really have Ford & Harrison on the payroll?
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I know for sure that they did during the union drive, and most companies keep "labor relations" firms like F & H around for "consulting" activities after a drive.



Isn't that the same law firm that led the anti-union propoganda drive over at Colgan? They sound like union busting specialists.
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The one at Colgan was actually Baker & Hostetler, which is the same firm that Pinnacle management has always used. The lead attorney for Pinnacle Corp. from the firm is Joe Manson, who was a Lorenzo attorney during the EAL days. Both B & H and F & H are well-known for union-busting activities. They specialize in it.
 
I compared the proposed rates to ASA. On average the -200 rates are identical for both CA and FO, except for the 1st year FO. The -700/900 rate is around 1-3% less than ASA because of our Brad Holt Override.
 
crashmbern said:
I'd be happy with that raise at skywest. What prevents management from cutting pay??????
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I wouldn't. Like I said, you're essentially taking a pay cut in 2009 and 2010 b/c the COL "raise" doesn't keep up with what inflation normally averages. The 1st year FO pay is insulting. Skywest pilots shouldn't settle for what management is offering them. With they're track record and growth, they should be able to get more.

As far as what's stopping management from cutting wages, nothing.....except for a mass exodus of ticked off FOs (could happen with upgrade times sneaking up) and a hard time getting new hires to work there. The bottom of the barrel of FOs has been scraped a few times already. Otherwise, you wouldn't see guys getting hired at some regionals with 250TT, about 3 trips in the pattern worth of ME and wet ink on a CMEL.
 
I've posted in this thread before basically saying I'm not surprised at the proposal. What I AM curious about is why as a group we don't show utter disgust at pay rates on these larger and larger "regional aircraft."

These CRJ-700,-900; Embraer 170,175 and even Q400 have become mainstays in many regional fleets, and while companies enjoy growth and profits using these aircraft the pilots flying them have little to show for it. So why are the pilots flying them and those of us who aren't so tranquil regarding their pay?

Just looking at some 4th year captain rates
ASA CRJ700 - $67/hr
Compass E175 - $67/hr
Colgan Q400 - $58/hr
GoJet CRJ700- $65/hr
Lynx Q400 - $54/hr
PSA CRJ700 - $66/hr
Republic E170- $68/hr
Skywest CRJ7/9 - $65/hr
Mesa CRJ900- $67/hr

Pretty lackluster rates...Maybe it's just me, but when I think of what I'd want for 70 seat rates or greater, I'm thinking up at least in the $75/hr range and more when I think of the big EJets or -900.

So why do these crummy rates go largely unnoticed?

My sense is that most guys in the regional business at this point are in it for what they see to be the short term and don't anticipate being at their company for too long. They'll endure marginal pay just to have the good opportunity to upgrade quicker. Maybe they feel that they're getting taken advantage of somewhat but they'll deal with it as long as they see that they'll get something out of it soon (upgrade.) Key example would be Republic FOs on the EJets, they fly this big plane around with first class etc, but basically will deal with it because they want to upgrade quick, pay is adequate.

So again, I ask...why the apathy for big regional pay?
 
My opinion (of course, what else is there in a message forum), is that people will defend their decisions to the death. They'll find ways to rationalize and justify their decisions and say it worked best for them, and then instead of looking at somebodies criticisms and saying, "Hey you know what, you're right! I am undervalued!" they think to themselves, "Yeah I know I'm flying for too little, I've gotta do something to make an excuse though instead of just owning up to it and admitting the rates suck."

By doing this we're pitted against each other and the execs win.
 
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