Skywest Hiring?

MikeD said:
From an observer perspective, this situation appears to be one of the biggest gotcha's, in one of two ways:

-It's all "unity!" right up until you might be getting the short end of the stick. Then the chant seems to change.

or


-It's all "screw everyone else" right up until you begin getting the short end of the stick, then it's "unity!".
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Yup!
 
Rocketman99 said:
[fantasy] Now that's an intriguing thought Doug... The best thing that could possibly happen to our industry. Based solely on that, slug it out fellas, hurt the operation. [/fantasy]

Omar, I really can't believe you're advocating the position you've been in the last few posts. It just doesn't sound like you, it totally sounds like "I got mine, screw you." Come on man, we've all gotta be one team one fight. That means me win AND lose together. Sometimes making it better for everyone means potentially making it a little worse for yourself. You're not entitled to anything, but neither is anyone else, well except for management and their bonuses that is.
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I hear ya man. But how about you guys respond to my opinions. If I get you guys right, you're asking us to take it in the rear to better everything? Even though that means having the other airlines pilots go ahead of ours.

The least you guys could do is acknowledge that you understand my perspective. It seems a little like the animosity towards the Skywest pilots that has existed for the past few years for being non-union is being taken out here. Here's our chance to get them!

I would be very delighted to have Chicago, train, and yes even you surreal, on the same list, on one team. But should it all come at my expense? When I lose my job some day, or can't hold a line, and my wife leaves me because I'm never home, where will the unity be there?

You guys don't have to be below me, and in the same point, I don't think it's fair for you to be above me.

Why can't bidding only be allowed in the base that you're airline had prior to the merger?
 
aloft said:
I kinda see Omar's point. SkyWest has done much better financially than any other regional in part because of the sacrifices its employees have made by remaining non-union. And just as the ALPA guys object to SkyWest's pilot group riding on their coattails on matters of contract gains, the SkyWest pilot group has every right to object to XJT and ASA pilots riding theirs.

Not saying I agree with him, but I can see where (I think) he's coming from.

Everyone needs to keep in mind that this is not a merger of equals, it is an acquisition of a weaker company (as evidenced by their balance sheet and share price), whose employees do not have the same career expectations as those of the acquiring company. I'm not saying this should be an AMR-esque screw job, but any SLI kinda needs to favor the employees of the stronger company.
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This is the point I'm trying to make. I know it's not popular opinion here.
 
As someone who has been getting the short end of the stick (put into places you can't imagine) for 2 years and 8 months I'm excited to have the Expressjet pilots join us here at ASA. Even if it means more time at the ass end of the seniority list, they seem to be a good group of people and through larger numbers we can make more progress in righting this messed up industry.

If we can get Skywest aboard I think the improvement would be immense. That being said, I don't think I could work a four day while listening to a koolaide drinker talk about how they deserve better because "I picked the right airline". What a load of BS. Your management doesn't give a damn about you. The ONLY reason they don't want to include Skywest in this merger is because they lose leverage...not because they think you're special.
 
I'm new to all this acquisiton/merger stuff so please feel free to school me on anything and everything.

1. Has the acquistion taken place yet?
2. Wouldn't the companies (if merged) have fences up for at least a couple of years on their aircraft as well as the bases?
3. Since the original post is about skywest hiring, and if they (skywest holdings) wants to keep Skywest Airlines separate, how is this affecting the line/furloughed pilots at XJT and ASA?

I believe that MikeD hit it spot on in his previous statement.
 
jtrain609 said:
A percentage integration based on the pilots who were on the seniority lists at the time the merger was announced is a fair and equitable merger.
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This.

Doug Taylor said:
Work it out, folks. Your future in the airline business depends on it more than you know.
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And this.

mrivc211 said:
I'm all for standing together, but you guys are asking us to swallow a VERY big pill to do that when I've already swallowed a huge horse pill trying to organize ALPA here.
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Everyone has to share in the pain in a successful merger, I am ready to share it if need be. We all need to be.

However, I think this whole discussion is putting the cart before the horse just a tad. Who knows if the XJT/ASA pilot groups will pursue a full merger? Not to mention the purchase isn't even approved yet.
 
mrivc211 said:
But that's the point I'm trying to make. There's their FOs and our FOs. How can their guys expect anything when their company was operating at a loss?
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And therein lies the problem. You're looking at the pilots as separate teams. You're willing to punish "their" pilots for "their" management's shortcomings. Delta was operating at a loss, too. Most of the majors were. A merger shouldn't be dictated on who has the best balance sheet. That may be a way to determine who HEADS the merged company, but your front line employees should be the same and work together.

I see the point you and aloft bring up, I just vehemently disagree with it. I right with Alchemy on this one. Skywest didn't swoop in as a savior, no matter what they or some of the pilots over there might think. 9E wasn't XJ's savior, either. BOTH made moves to solidify business by eliminating a competitor. I find it hard to believe that the tune would be different if XJT WASN'T operating at a loss based on what I've read here.

Believe me, I'd LOVE to get off reserve where I am. But I can't in good conscience say that an XJ guy with about my seniority should go behind me just because my company saved his so I can move up 20 seniority spots.
 
There's way too much room for wiggling in this stuff. ALPA ought to come up with a universal merger policy. Whatever it is. DOH, Staple the buyees, some sort of points system, whatever. As it stands everyone's feelings are WAY too much in play, and inevitably one feels as though they're due more than the other guy.
 
mrivc211 said:
I would be very delighted to have Chicago, train, and yes even you surreal, on the same list, on one team. But should it all come at my expense? When I lose my job some day, or can't hold a line, and my wife leaves me because I'm never home, where will the unity be there?

You guys don't have to be below me, and in the same point, I don't think it's fair for you to be above me.

Why can't bidding only be allowed in the base that you're airline had prior to the merger?
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Trust me. I'll lose out far more than anyone in this little venture.

The best scenario for many of us here at ASA is quite simple.

XJT pilot group takes this Holding letter to court. It gets so bogged down in court that it could take 18-36 months before ANY FINAL decision is determined. In the mean time, SkyWest Inc. says screw it. . .and well. . .back to watching the show, no SLI to worry about, only honest true seniority progression from an Acey pilot stand point.

Downside of course is, well, what - XJT Holdings, Inc. lost 18 million this past quarter? When would that turn around? How bad COULD it get? How bad WILL it get for ExpressJet Inc.? What does THEIR future (labor) look like without this acquisition?

Is it positive or negative, or even neutral (probably the least likely of the three).

That said, from a bottom 1%'r at Acey...I'll gladly watch the ExpressJet pilots take this fight to court with SkyWest Inc. It's your battle guys, my opinion and more importantly that of our MEC is that we are going to stay out of this. We'll be at the table when / if you guys are ready, but if no one else shows up to dance with us in timely fashion, you can be pretty confident that SkyWest, Inc. will either ditch this deal (again) and just watch whatever ends up in regards to assets and opportunities for Inc. to still enter into a CPA with United/CAL.

So, like I said...XJT guys - good luck.

Acey is in a position to hire soon, be it furloughed XJT pilots who get to exercise their XJT # in an SLI or not - albeit I have my own personal benefits to that NOT happening - it very well may end up being a great number of off-the-street non-XJT pilots, thus actually providing some position cushion to 136 recently furloughed pilots and the real benefits of seniority increasing (res. vs. line holding with PBS bidding)

You won't find any argument from me Omar. More props to you for carrying it through as you said. A six man team ( 3 v 3 ) are going to determine our SLI. Our MEC has already offered that they can sway preferential hiring to the company of XJT pilots before OTS guys. So, we'll see where that leads.

Perhaps the XJT guys will be better off sticking it out. Then again, that's a tough gamble to make right now.
 
kellwolf said:
And therein lies the problem. You're looking at the pilots as separate teams. You're willing to punish "their" pilots for "their" management's shortcomings. Delta was operating at a loss, too. Most of the majors were. A merger shouldn't be dictated on who has the best balance sheet. That may be a way to determine who HEADS the merged company, but your front line employees should be the same and work together.

I see the point you and aloft bring up, I just vehemently disagree with it. I right with Alchemy on this one. Skywest didn't swoop in as a savior, no matter what they or some of the pilots over there might think. 9E wasn't XJ's savior, either. BOTH made moves to solidify business by eliminating a competitor. I find it hard to believe that the tune would be different if XJT WASN'T operating at a loss based on what I've read here.

Believe me, I'd LOVE to get off reserve where I am. But I can't in good conscience say that an XJ guy with about my seniority should go behind me just because my company saved his so I can move up 20 seniority spots.
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Skywest did not come in as a "savior" to ASA if you remember. When we were purchased from Delta....who was desperately trying to avoid bankruptcy at the time and needed cash, we consistently posted the highest profit margins in the entire airline industry as reported by Airline Transport World. We brought large sums of cash and $30-40 million per year in profits to the Skywest "family".

Every airline has pilots who have "suffered".....that is no excuse to ask for a bigger piece of the pie. At ASA we had 160-ish furloughs and 7 year FO's who have been downgraded (myself included) due in large part to the Skywest whipsaw. Airplanes were transferred, deliveries were diverted, SLC base closed, and Skywest pilots kept happy (ATL base anyone???) to avoid a union and try to beat us down during contract negotiations. In the worst economic times since the Great Depression why do you think Skywest was the only carrier to not furlough???

Why would you want Jerry to have this much power against his employee groups? What happens when the whip gets turned around the other direction? ASA is presently increasing it's United flying and will be doing quite a bit of DL flying out of Denver next month. That probably doesn't make you guys feel to good does it? If we're all one list these airplane transfers, route swaps, base openings/closings etc.... will stop. Wouldn't that be nice?

Oh yeah....how is that High Deductible Health Plan working for you???

With the exception of the internet loudmouths, nobody is asking you to take a backseat to anybody. As an ASA guy DOH would benefit me, but I don't want that. Fence off each others bases for a number of years with bump protection after that along with a % relative seniority. This keeps everything status quo.... If you're 35% now you will remain 35% afterward and the fences will keep ASA/XJT/SKYW guys from bumping people of equipment/seats and out of bases. It will also keep our management using on group against the other....besides, wouldn't you like to have an enforceable contract?
 
mrivc211 said:
Explain to me how its fair that another airlines pilot is all of a sudden allowed to bid above me? I think what I am trying to also get at is when the crap hits the fan and downgrades come, I will be the one downgrading while the other airlines pilot keeps his left seat. What then?

Have we all really thought out all the scenarios?

I guess jumpseating with an TWA/STL crew last week really opened my eyes as to how screwed I can get for a very long time.

I'm all for standing together, but you guys are asking us to swallow a VERY big pill to do that when I've already swallowed a huge horse pill trying to organize ALPA here.
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And you don't think I have by being on furlough for 2 years?

You think everybody at XJT is jumping for joy over this merger? We're not. We were quite happy plugging along, doing what we were doing.
 
jtrain609 said:
You think everybody at XJT is jumping for joy over this merger? We're not. We were quite happy plugging along, doing what we were doing.
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Don't you know? With a $5M 2Q 2010 loss and $108M in the bank, XJT is just on the brink of Chapter 7. DOOOOOOOOOOM!

No, but really, SLI aside I think this will be beneficial to XJT as a whole. Stop the bleeding with this new CPA that was just signed.

Sorry, sorry...*slinks away*
 
Another airline's pilot is not "suddenly" allowed to bid above you, there will be fences for years. That takes the "sudden" out of it. Gives you time to get used to it. So get used to it.
 
I say staple 'em all and let god sort 'em out...:)

But seriously, let's just keep everybody in their same happy (or not so happy) place with a relative percentage integration. 5 year fences on our western bases to keep the majority of SKW guys happy and no fences on IAH to keep me happy! :)
 
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