Skywest Hiring?

[mrivc211]

When Southwest proposed a merger with Frontier, did the Frontier guys really expect an equal DOH SLI? Not only was it not expected from them, but pilots across the industry didn't expect it either. WN was the buying carrier, and Frontier the weaker. I think a lot of you guys are not giving enough merit to our pilot group and what we have accomplished these few years. We have become the strongest regional carrier in the industry. Enough to purchase several airlines.

I don't want a staple of 4000 guys under me. Just put up fences. I don't want ATL, EWR, IAH or any other base you have. I'm fine with commuting to ORD. Just don't expect another airlines captain to come bid above me in my base for my airline when we were the ones who were the purchasing airline. Speaking of commuting, I'll see you guys later.

 

[dasleben]

All of the pro ALPA work that I have done IS meaningless. We don't have ALPA here and never will. This pilot group is the most anti union group there is. After organizing for 2 years, no one knows this better than me. It just ain't gonna happen.

That's certainly a shame, then. FlyChicaga is right: The only reason SkyWest pilots have been given many of the same benefits that union pilots have worked for over the years is to keep a union off property. Too many have bought into the kool-aid, believing that management is benevolent and will always take care of them.

I still stand behind the fact that I hope SkyWest never loses one of their big mainline contracts. Management will turn against the pilot group in a flash. I've seen it happen first hand.

 

[kellwolf]

You think theres going to be "Unity" in this group if any other airlines pilot is given a captain slot when our FO's have been waiting patiently? Please.

So, what about the XJT FOs that were downgraded and the guys over there that have also been "waiting patiently?" Why should your FOs suddenly get a better deal than them just because your management team bought another company? Why should you get to keep your same QoL, but a guy at XJT with the same seniority loses his? Not sure if that's what you think, but reading in this thread, it sure sounds like you'd be okay with that.

99% of the time, I've been right there with you on things, Omar. But on this.....you're sounding an awful lot like the senior guys we've got here at 9E that just want to screw the XJ pilots or really don't care what happens to the other guys as long as they get what they want.

 

[MikeD]

So, what about the XJT FOs that were downgraded and the guys over there that have also been "waiting patiently?" Why should your FOs suddenly get a better deal than them just because your management team bought another company? Why should you get to keep your same QoL, but a guy at XJT with the same seniority loses his? Not sure if that's what you think, but reading in this thread, it sure sounds like you'd be okay with that.

99% of the time, I've been right there with you on things, Omar. But on this.....you're sounding an awful lot like the senior guys we've got here at 9E that just want to screw the XJ pilots or really don't care what happens to the other guys as long as they get what they want.

From an observer perspective, this situation appears to be one of the biggest gotcha's, in one of two ways:

-It's all "unity!" right up until you might be getting the short end of the stick. Then the chant seems to change.

or

-It's all "screw everyone else" right up until you begin getting the short end of the stick, then it's "unity!".

 

[Rocketman99]

will NOT tolerate that in a competitive environment and you will lose your feed contracts -- Mesa anyone? It may serve as the final nail in the SJP's coffin and convince the majors to do it all in-house.

[fantasy] Now that's an intriguing thought Doug... The best thing that could possibly happen to our industry. Based solely on that, slug it out fellas, hurt the operation. [/fantasy]

Omar, I really can't believe you're advocating the position you've been in the last few posts. It just doesn't sound like you, it totally sounds like "I got mine, screw you." Come on man, we've all gotta be one team one fight. That means me win AND lose together. Sometimes making it better for everyone means potentially making it a little worse for yourself. You're not entitled to anything, but neither is anyone else, well except for management and their bonuses that is.

 

[Clocks]

From an observer perspective, this situation appears to be one of the biggest gotcha's, in one of two ways:

-It's all "unity!" right up until you might be getting the short end of the stick. Then the chant seems to change.

or

-It's all "screw everyone else" right up until you begin getting the short end of the stick, then it's "unity!".

Pilot unity is the illusion that is sometimes created when everyone acts in their own self interest.

If anyone loses a penny of pay or a day of seniority, the illusion is broken.

 

[aloft]

So, what about the XJT FOs that were downgraded and the guys over there that have also been "waiting patiently?" Why should your FOs suddenly get a better deal than them just because your management team bought another company? Why should you get to keep your same QoL, but a guy at XJT with the same seniority loses his? Not sure if that's what you think, but reading in this thread, it sure sounds like you'd be okay with that.

I kinda see Omar's point. SkyWest has done much better financially than any other regional in part because of the sacrifices its employees have made by remaining non-union. And just as the ALPA guys object to SkyWest's pilot group riding on their coattails on matters of contract gains, the SkyWest pilot group has every right to object to XJT and ASA pilots riding theirs.

Not saying I agree with him, but I can see where (I think) he's coming from.

Everyone needs to keep in mind that this is not a merger of equals, it is an acquisition of a weaker company (as evidenced by their balance sheet and share price), whose employees do not have the same career expectations as those of the acquiring company. I'm not saying this should be an AMR-esque screw job, but any SLI kinda needs to favor the employees of the stronger company.

 

[Clocks]

I kinda see Omar's point. SkyWest has done much better financially than any other regional in part because of the sacrifices its employees have made by remaining non-union. And just as the ALPA guys object to SkyWest's pilot group riding on their coattails on matters of contract gains, the SkyWest pilot group has every right to object to XJT and ASA pilots riding theirs.

Not saying I agree with him, but I can see where (I think) he's coming from.

Everyone needs to keep in mind that this is not a merger of equals, it is an acquisition of a weaker company (as evidenced by their balance sheet and share price), whose employees do not have the same career expectations as those of the acquiring company. I'm not saying this should be an AMR-esque screw job, but any SLI kinda needs to favor the employees of the stronger company.

That would make sense if the employees had any say in the matter.

Want to staple xjt (or something similar)? No problem, but give the pilots the ability to vote down the buyout for SLI reasons. I'd bet the vote would be to take our chances with possible BK or another buyout.

 

[derg]

Aloft-

Would that same rationale apply to America West + USAir?

 

[aloft]

That would make sense if the employees had any say in the matter.

Want to staple xjt (or something similar)? No problem, but give the pilots the ability to vote down the buyout for SLI reasons. I'd bet the vote would be to take our chances with possible BK or another buyout.

The XJT board is already facing lawsuit from shareholders for failing in their fiduciary duty to find a better deal; I'd think this would only add fodder to those claims.

Aloft-

Would that same rationale apply to America West + USAir?

I would say so, but honestly, I don't know enough (read: anything) about that deal. Feel free to school me, though.

 

[E_Dawg]

Most of us chose this as a career and not just a job. Anything that hurts the career hurts us as individuals over the long term. Allowing one management group umbrella over 3 essentially separate pilot groups is not good for the career. Some of the bro FOs are still banking mid 30s after 3yrs. How is that a career? Did they also make the right choice? My sister is a secretary at a law firm and makes 50k. Which incidentally is what I make as an airline captain.

 

[derg]

Aloft-

Well, honestly, if you look at both carriers, the maximum career expectations is the CRJ at Skywest and the max is the Embraer at XJT.

There's about a $5 difference between the -200 and the -900 at Skywest. Max rates are about $10 on the XJT 50-seater compared to the Skywest -900. There's not a stark pay difference.

The career expectations really aren't all that different. Fly a 50-seater at XJT or a 90-seater at Skywest for about the same hourly rates. Now work rules, I have no idea.

Now if Fed Ex acquired XJT, now there's where we start talking about career expectations. But Between Skywest and XJT, it's apples and apples. One might be a Golden Delicious and the other might be a Washington.

FDX and XJT? Whole different story.

 

[Bumblebee]

But Between Skywest and XJT, it's apples and apples. One might be a Golden Delicious and the other might be a Washington.

a worm is a worm is a worm

 

[dasleben]

Aloft-

Well, honestly, if you look at both carriers, the maximum career expectations is the CRJ at Skywest and the max is the Embraer at XJT.

There's about a $5 difference between the -200 and the -900 at Skywest. Max rates are about $10 on the XJT 50-seater compared to the Skywest -900. There's not a stark pay difference.

The career expectations really aren't all that different. Fly a 50-seater at XJT or a 90-seater at Skywest for about the same hourly rates. Now work rules, I have no idea.

Now if Fed Ex acquired XJT, now there's where we start talking about career expectations. But Between Skywest and XJT, it's apples and apples. One might be a Golden Delicious and the other might be a Washington.

FDX and XJT? Whole different story.

Unfortunately if you ask some of these SkyWest guys, they'd put themselves well above XJT or ASA in terms of career expectation. After all, they are the "victor" in this merger.

 

[falconvalley]

IMO, "career expectations" and "career aspirations" get confused sometimes. Career expections are based on many different forces, not just what one person or one commonly-associated group of people envision. I'm neck deep in the middle of an integration. My company bought the other companies. I don't completely share my company's vision and I don't completely share the other pilot groups' visions. However, I do expect to be roughly around the same percent seniority when the integration is done. The only staple I anticipate is the snapshots of the furloughed to the snapshot of the active. Why? Because those of us who were furloughed were not working for the company. We all had seniority numbers, but those were for the purposes of recall rights, not integration. I could walk down the avenue of "my company bought yours, you go to the end of the line" but the reason that does not make sense to me is the fact that I'm a pilot, not an owner. I do believe in some control over my destiny, but I also believe that integrations involve a lot of uncertainty and sharing. I'd rather a group of uninterested wise people determine my destiny. I wouldn't want to be unfair, as would my soon to be coworkers, I'm sure.

 

[Alchemy]

This talk about how skywest is somehow the savior of Xjet is a little bit disingenuous. Skywest made this purchase to eliminate a competitor. They did not like seeing Xjet in SLC for delta 3 years ago and they did not like seeing them show up in ORD for UAX this year. It's also likely that Xjet would've obtained a USAirways Express contract this year had this merger not occurred. Like Mr Taylor implied, the career expectations at ASA, XJT, and SKW are all about the same. Sure, XJT was losing money last quarter, but it was not in bankruptcy and who knows how adding that USAir contract would've effected things, they might have been profitable next year.

If skywest didn't feel threatened or see any value in XJT, they would have waited for bankruptcy and picked apart the pieces. I guess they either knew that bankruptcy wasn't going to happen or would take too long to wait on.

Any integration of the 3 lists which grants a windfall to one pilot group at the expense of the other two will not work. ASA will want a DOH and Skywest will want a staple. I'm sure the reality will be somewhere in the middle.

 

[derg]

Unfortunately if you ask some of these SkyWest guys, they'd put themselves well above XJT or ASA in terms of career expectation. After all, they are the "victor" in this merger.

That's cool and all, BUT having seen a merger first hand:

From a Delta pilot's perspective: "Look at all the stuff YOU guys got, what you're getting and you're getting way more out of this than WE are."

From a Northwest pilot's perspective: "Look at all the stuff YOU guys got, what you're getting and you're getting way more out of this than WE are."

Seriously. Been there, done that!

 

[mrivc211]

So, what about the XJT FOs that were downgraded and the guys over there that have also been "waiting patiently?" Why should your FOs suddenly get a better deal than them just because your management team bought another company? Why should you get to keep your same QoL, but a guy at XJT with the same seniority loses his? Not sure if that's what you think, but reading in this thread, it sure sounds like you'd be okay with that.

99% of the time, I've been right there with you on things, Omar. But on this.....you're sounding an awful lot like the senior guys we've got here at 9E that just want to screw the XJ pilots or really don't care what happens to the other guys as long as they get what they want.

But that's the point I'm trying to make. There's their FOs and our FOs. How can their guys expect anything when their company was operating at a loss?

 

[dasleben]

But that's the point I'm trying to make. There's their FOs and our FOs. How can their guys expect anything when their company was operating at a loss?

Well, I'm just happy you're not part of the union drive over there any longer. Hopefully the next time it comes around someone will be better able to pick up the torch for everyone.

I'm out.

 

[Roger, Roger]

Just merge the lists, and form a battle line of 7000 pilots against a management team dead-set against us. Take their whipsaw and shove it right back in their face. Screw SkyWest management. Screw ExpressJet management. Screw ASA (ahem, Atlantic Southeast) management. Make them figure out how to run an airline of 7000 united ALPA regional pilots who will bust their ass day after day to run a successful airline, but require adequate compensation for it.

Preach it.