Skywest Hiring?

[mwflyer]

it is what it is. I'm not saying we should staple, but I just don't see how any bought carriers pilot should be placed in front of one of ours.

Funny how you say you dont want a staple, but the only way to keep any acquired guy below all current skywest guys is...........a staple!

 

[FlyChicaga]

To be devils advocate here:

Let's put yourself in my shoes and tell me if it sounds fair. When I was first hired at Skywest I had calls from expressjet and another small cargo outfit. I respectfully declined both.

I believed in my company and we have prospered. I now sit at roughly 35% seniority in the company. How is it fair for an expressjet pilot or ASA pilot that chose to go to another airline to be put in front of me?

Be it a 20 year capt there or not, you chose to go there. Not come here. So you shouldn't be allowed to get ahead of one Skywest pilot.

You want to have a single list? Fine. I see the benefits. But if you chose to gamble by going elsewhere and lost you shouldn't expect to come into our house with a large hand out making demands to be put ahead of our pilots.

To be fair...

I busted my ass trying to get hired by Chicago Express. I LOVED Chicago Express. I wanted Chicago Express to exist forever. No matter what I did, Chicago Express was not going to exist anymore.

So I applied to ExpressJet on a whim. It was an easy online application, and I didn't have much interview experience. So I got a call... and an interview... and a second interview. Next thing I know, they asked if I could be in class next week. After some deliberation, I accepted. In hindsight, good choice.

So for the past six years, I've busted my ass for ExpressJet. I went to San Antonio, not because it was an easier quality of life... But because I was excited about what we were doing, and I wanted to be a part of it. So I busted my ass. I tried to make ExpressJet Airlines (the brand) something to be proud of. I worked my ASS off. Unfortunately, I'm only a small spoke in the wheel. Management steers the ship.

So back to Newark I went. I busted my ass flying out of our new Terminal A operation. I did what needed to be done, because we had a new CPA with Continental.

Then, when I was lucky enough to get a base where I lived in Chicago, I came right away to ORD. I have busted my ass here trying to help this operation go more smoothly, so we can do a good job for United. I've done what I can, just like every other pilot who wears an ExpressJet uniform has done. I have put up with reassignments, rolled days off, pay cuts, and a multitude of other problems to keep us going.

So now, because some jackwad CEO-wannabe comes in and sells us off, I'm supposed to take a backseat to SkyWest pilots because "we owe you?" Because "you" bought us? No, YOU did not buy us. Your management did. This is simply a shell game, and right now we're on the losing end. Don't think for a minute that you were immune to EVERYTHING that has happened to the ExpressJet pilots. Be proud we have fought hard to keep our industry leading contract, so the SkyWest non-union pilots could leech off it. Yes, leech off it. Because your management team has known for YEARS that giving YOU, the SkyWest pilots what WE the ALPA regional pilots have for free will keep you at bay in the ALPA drive. That's why 70% of your pilot group is apathetic or against a union, because you get what we've worked for without the hard work. But WE should take a backseat and get stapled because your management was able to "win?"

We should be in this together. But clearly we are not. If we were in this together, who gives a rats ass about fences. Just merge the lists, and form a battle line of 7000 pilots against a management team dead-set against us. Take their whipsaw and shove it right back in their face. Screw SkyWest management. Screw ExpressJet management. Screw ASA (ahem, Atlantic Southeast) management. Make them figure out how to run an airline of 7000 united ALPA regional pilots who will bust their ass day after day to run a successful airline, but require adequate compensation for it.

SkyWest guys... ASA guys... WE are not your enemy. We're just PILOTS... yes, PILOTS who are here with you to advance our career. Don't tell us you're going to staple us because you "chose" the right company. Give me a break! You got hired somewhere, and you went to work. You just got LUCKY it was somewhere lucrative. When we were all doing chandelles and lazy-8s over farmlands we were on the same team... Just trying to get a job... Just trying to make it. Now, somehow, we chose wrong??

I'm not buying it. Merge us. Build us. 7000 strong, date of hire. We ride together, we die together, Bad Boys for life.

Nothing against you Omar. I'll show you how to spike and swing any day brotha.

 

[E_Dawg]

I think this talk is premature and pointless. It's not finalized nor is it up to the pilots, anyhow. And Omar I wouldn't say I'm 'patiently' awaiting a change... commuting to reserve now, while constantly getting assigned deadheads to the base I've been trying to bid for the last 2yrs....

But back on topic some kind of percentage integration would be better. It's true it's not up to the pilots, just like it wasn't up to the xjet pilots to be bought. You can't honestly believe the most senior guy at xjet should be junior to skywests' planned newhires this month?? And if you chalk it up to "how the industry is", than the industry really is not set up very well.... any airline could be bought and after putting X amount of years into the industry you should NEVER have to start at the bottom!!!

 

[surreal1221]

To be devils advocate here:

Let's put yourself in my shoes and tell me if it sounds fair. When I was first hired at Skywest I had calls from expressjet and another small cargo outfit. I respectfully declined both.

I believed in my company and we have prospered. I now sit at roughly 35% seniority in the company. How is it fair for an expressjet pilot or ASA pilot that chose to go to another airline to be put in front of me?

Be it a 20 year capt there or not, you chose to go there. Not come here. So you shouldn't be allowed to get ahead of one Skywest pilot.

You want to have a single list? Fine. I see the benefits. But if you chose to gamble by going elsewhere and lost you shouldn't expect to come into our house with a large hand out making demands to be put ahead of our pilots.

Flip the script, and put it just XJT pilots ahead of ASA pilots...

How about you tell that to our MEC leadership here at ASA? Representing our interests? HAHAHAHA...

There seems to be a growing resistance to this acquisition amongst those pilots here less than 15 years. If we don't get details from our MEC within the next month on how they plan on going forward, there may be some troubling times ahead.

 

[surreal1221]

it is what it is. I'm not saying we should staple, but I just don't see how any bought carriers pilot should be placed in front of one of ours.

You be sure to communicate that to our (ASA) MEC will ya?

Thanks.

 

[derg]

Pardon me for injecting yet another useless opinion in this matter, but if we do end up integrating everyone together wouldn't we be using snapshots of the seniority list on the day of the announced merger? Isn't that what Delta and NW did?

Ehh, close enough.

But there was quite a bit of time spent with an arbitrator too.

 

[jtrain609]

To be devils advocate here:

Let's put yourself in my shoes and tell me if it sounds fair. When I was first hired at Skywest I had calls from expressjet and another small cargo outfit. I respectfully declined both.

I believed in my company and we have prospered. I now sit at roughly 35% seniority in the company. How is it fair for an expressjet pilot or ASA pilot that chose to go to another airline to be put in front of me?

Be it a 20 year capt there or not, you chose to go there. Not come here. So you shouldn't be allowed to get ahead of one Skywest pilot.

You want to have a single list? Fine. I see the benefits. But if you chose to gamble by going elsewhere and lost you shouldn't expect to come into our house with a large hand out making demands to be put ahead of our pilots.

You're better than this, Omar, and I'll let YOU explain why what you're saying is completely out of line.

A percentage integration based on the pilots who were on the seniority lists at the time the merger was announced is a fair and equitable merger.

 

[derg]

To be devils advocate here:

Let's put yourself in my shoes and tell me if it sounds fair. When I was first hired at Skywest I had calls from expressjet and another small cargo outfit. I respectfully declined both.

I believed in my company and we have prospered. I now sit at roughly 35% seniority in the company. How is it fair for an expressjet pilot or ASA pilot that chose to go to another airline to be put in front of me?

Be it a 20 year capt there or not, you chose to go there. Not come here. So you shouldn't be allowed to get ahead of one Skywest pilot.

You want to have a single list? Fine. I see the benefits. But if you chose to gamble by going elsewhere and lost you shouldn't expect to come into our house with a large hand out making demands to be put ahead of our pilots.

If the company is to succeed, you will need an equitable SLI.

Without an equitable SLI, Skywest will become the USAirways of the entire regional industry.

If Delta had stapled NWA, let me tell you, this place would have thrown a tire and veered off the cliff because we would have 42% of the pilot group, almost 5500 people looking for opportunities to 'stick it to the man'.

There's nothing "calculated" about who we all went to work for. I'll tell you 99% of us shotgunned applications out there and took a bite at the shiniest apple that rolled off the cart. Hell, only one apple rolled off the cart for me, but at the time in 1997 United was a larger and much shinier piece of fruit at the time in some respects. Remember how I go on and on that todays "hot place to be" will be tomorrow's "dude, what are you still doing there?" and to and from and to and from in perpetuity?

Trust me, there was a point at which I was a handful of good bids away from being able to hold NYC 7ER captain, fo4ever was a captain and we had non-consolidated new hire pilots complaining about having to fly FCO on a weekend and how KBP would never be the same since the hotel stopped the silver service in the hotel rooms so you could enjoy your breakfast like Louis XVI.

Then the inevitability hit, a merger.

Wasn't my decision.

They didn't ask me.

But mergers, failures, bankruptcies, fragmentation, acquisitions, etc are all non-quantifiable risks that we expose ourselves to in professional aviation.

Delta + NWA will not be my last merger. I have 26 years left and if the name on the check is still Delta, gold-bar epaulets, a widget on the wings and it's still black slacks, I'll be one of the lucky few in the business.

Trust me, stapling ASA and XJET to the bottom of the seniority list out of corporate pride, or not working towards an equitable seniority list integration will eventually destroy the airline as a whole from lawsuits, angry employees and malaise. Those will result in cancelled flights, dirty aircraft, angry employees, unreliable transportation -- trust me, Delta, United, American, Continental, etc will NOT tolerate that in a competitive environment and you will lose your feed contracts -- Mesa anyone? It may serve as the final nail in the SJP's coffin and convince the majors to do it all in-house.

Work it out, folks. Your future in the airline business depends on it more than you know.

 

[jtrain609]

Also Omar, maybe you should have taken that job at XJT.

If you were the first 2004 hire, which sounds like you would be if you were interviewing in 2003, 7 years ago, you'd be at 31% at XJT.

 

[jtrain609]

I think this talk is premature and pointless. It's not finalized nor is it up to the pilots, anyhow. And Omar I wouldn't say I'm 'patiently' awaiting a change... commuting to reserve now, while constantly getting assigned deadheads to the base I've been trying to bid for the last 2yrs....

But back on topic some kind of percentage integration would be better. It's true it's not up to the pilots, just like it wasn't up to the xjet pilots to be bought. You can't honestly believe the most senior guy at xjet should be junior to skywests' planned newhires this month?? And if you chalk it up to "how the industry is", than the industry really is not set up very well.... any airline could be bought and after putting X amount of years into the industry you should NEVER have to start at the bottom!!!

Whoa! SCCCRRREEEAAACCCHHH!!!! Back the boat up!

SLI's are negotiated between pilot groups. If Skywest doesn't have a union on property when the SLI occurs, and it will, then Skywest management will advocated for the Skywest pilots.

This WILL be up to the pilots, because our contract requires it.

 

[Cav]

Go sit in a USAirways jumpseat for a few hours and then come back here and tell us we shouldn't merge all 3 lists.

No one is immune to a swirl in the airline toilet bowl. No one!

 

[Cav]

Whoa! SCCCRRREEEAAACCCHHH!!!! Back the boat up!

SLI's are negotiated between pilot groups. If Skywest doesn't have a union on property when the SLI occurs, and it will, then Skywest management will advocated for the Skywest pilots.

This WILL be up to the pilots, because our contract requires it.

Correct me if I'm wrong train but wouldn't the SLI be arbitrated if a negotiated SLI is not reached? It seems history would indicate that it generally heads down that path...I hope I'm wrong but.......

 

[Clocks]

At worst? Bud, I think you and I have very different views about this topic. Again, if you chose to go to another carrier, you shouldn't be allowed to be in front of one Skywest pilot. Simple as that. All of our FO's have been on reserve for 3 years for SkyWest Airlines. It's time for FO's who have been on reserve for SkyWest Airlines to be awarded their captain upgrades that they have earned by flying revenue flights for SkyWest Airlines.

Get my drift? If you contributed to Expressjet Airlines back in the day when they were doing branded flying and they had made it, you wouldn't be singing the same tune. Lets say we had failed and you were buying us, would it be fair for me to expect to be in the same seniority for an ExpressJet Captain? I think not. I wouldn't be bold enough to say"I bring this to the table". Those are some bold words for an airline that was just purchased for $133 Million when the acquiring carrier has close to $1 Billion CASH RESERVES in the bank. Lets not fool ourselves into who brings what to the table.

Captain Graham has been on reserve on the EMB for a few years now. He's patiently waiting a transition to the Jet with his airline. Capt Dutson has been on the EMB in SLC for quite a while now flying revenue for Skywest and I'm sure would like to be going to the jet. How about Capt Lasure? He's been commuting to reserve for SkyWest for years now. He is ready to bare the fruits of his labor by holding a decent line. I don't think keeping them where their at would be fair if an integration were to occur. They have put in the labor for this airline, and they should be rewarded for this airline. When you put in the labor for our airline, then you will be rewarded.

All I read is "I want a 4000 pilot bump in seniority". Gimme gimme gimme. Luckily your opinion is as meaningless as mine.

Doug's most recent post in this thread also nailed it.

 

[MikeD]

Go sit in a USAirways jumpseat for a few hours and then come back here and tell us we shouldn't merge all 3 lists.

No one is immune to a swirl in the airline toilet bowl. No one!

Hell, ride a NWA jumpseat back in the day. That was one of the most uncomfortable and cold rides I'd ever taken in a 727.

 

[mrivc211]

You're better than this, Omar, and I'll let YOU explain why what you're saying is completely out of line.

A percentage integration based on the pilots who were on the seniority lists at the time the merger was announced is a fair and equitable merger.

Explain to me how its fair that another airlines pilot is all of a sudden allowed to bid above me? I think what I am trying to also get at is when the crap hits the fan and downgrades come, I will be the one downgrading while the other airlines pilot keeps his left seat. What then?

Have we all really thought out all the scenarios?

I guess jumpseating with an TWA/STL crew last week really opened my eyes as to how screwed I can get for a very long time.

I'm all for standing together, but you guys are asking us to swallow a VERY big pill to do that when I've already swallowed a huge horse pill trying to organize ALPA here.

 

[mrivc211]

All I read is "I want a 4000 pilot bump in seniority". Gimme gimme gimme. Luckily your opinion is as meaningless as mine.

Doug's most recent post in this thread also nailed it.

I don't need a 4000 bump in seniority. I bid just fine and get any trip I want. You can keep it.

 

[mrivc211]

To be fair...

I busted my ass trying to get hired by Chicago Express. I LOVED Chicago Express. I wanted Chicago Express to exist forever. No matter what I did, Chicago Express was not going to exist anymore.

So I applied to ExpressJet on a whim. It was an easy online application, and I didn't have much interview experience. So I got a call... and an interview... and a second interview. Next thing I know, they asked if I could be in class next week. After some deliberation, I accepted. In hindsight, good choice.

So for the past six years, I've busted my ass for ExpressJet. I went to San Antonio, not because it was an easier quality of life... But because I was excited about what we were doing, and I wanted to be a part of it. So I busted my ass. I tried to make ExpressJet Airlines (the brand) something to be proud of. I worked my ASS off. Unfortunately, I'm only a small spoke in the wheel. Management steers the ship.

So back to Newark I went. I busted my ass flying out of our new Terminal A operation. I did what needed to be done, because we had a new CPA with Continental.

Then, when I was lucky enough to get a base where I lived in Chicago, I came right away to ORD. I have busted my ass here trying to help this operation go more smoothly, so we can do a good job for United. I've done what I can, just like every other pilot who wears an ExpressJet uniform has done. I have put up with reassignments, rolled days off, pay cuts, and a multitude of other problems to keep us going.

So now, because some jackwad CEO-wannabe comes in and sells us off, I'm supposed to take a backseat to SkyWest pilots because "we owe you?" Because "you" bought us? No, YOU did not buy us. Your management did. This is simply a shell game, and right now we're on the losing end. Don't think for a minute that you were immune to EVERYTHING that has happened to the ExpressJet pilots. Be proud we have fought hard to keep our industry leading contract, so the SkyWest non-union pilots could leech off it. Yes, leech off it. Because your management team has known for YEARS that giving YOU, the SkyWest pilots what WE the ALPA regional pilots have for free will keep you at bay in the ALPA drive. That's why 70% of your pilot group is apathetic or against a union, because you get what we've worked for without the hard work. But WE should take a backseat and get stapled because your management was able to "win?"

We should be in this together. But clearly we are not. If we were in this together, who gives a rats ass about fences. Just merge the lists, and form a battle line of 7000 pilots against a management team dead-set against us. Take their whipsaw and shove it right back in their face. Screw SkyWest management. Screw ExpressJet management. Screw ASA (ahem, Atlantic Southeast) management. Make them figure out how to run an airline of 7000 united ALPA regional pilots who will bust their ass day after day to run a successful airline, but require adequate compensation for it.

SkyWest guys... ASA guys... WE are not your enemy. We're just PILOTS... yes, PILOTS who are here with you to advance our career. Don't tell us you're going to staple us because you "chose" the right company. Give me a break! You got hired somewhere, and you went to work. You just got LUCKY it was somewhere lucrative. When we were all doing chandelles and lazy-8s over farmlands we were on the same team... Just trying to get a job... Just trying to make it. Now, somehow, we chose wrong??

I'm not buying it. Merge us. Build us. 7000 strong, date of hire. We ride together, we die together, Bad Boys for life.

Nothing against you Omar. I'll show you how to spike and swing any day brotha.

Bro,

I don't want your seniority number or spot, I just wanna keep my QOL and job security that I've enjoyed with my company.

 

[dasleben]

I'm all for standing together, but you guys are asking us to swallow a VERY big pill to do that when I've already swallowed a huge horse pill trying to organize ALPA here.

Then put meaning to your work by actually standing behind an equitable integration. Becoming ALPA at SkyWest is not about making sure that only SkyWest pilots get a big piece of the pie. It's about pilot unity nationwide, regardless of what management decides to do as far as mergers or acquisitions.

There are a lot of "I"s in your posts, and not enough "we"s. If you don't realize why that's a problem, then there's not much more I can say. Just realize that any pro-ALPA work you've done in the past is essentially meaningless because of your present outlook.

 

[mrivc211]

You be sure to communicate that to our (ASA) MEC will ya?

Thanks.

You've been on furlough how long now? I feel bad for you, I really do, and I wish you were flying, but until you've been thrown threw a garbage disposal a few years, I don't think you have as much of an expectation out of this.

Additionally, our pilot groups have been in contact with one another. Ours believes there will be no integration.

 

[mrivc211]

All of the pro ALPA work that I have done IS meaningless. We don't have ALPA here and never will. This pilot group is the most anti union group there is. After organizing for 2 years, no one knows this better than me. It just ain't gonna happen.