Skywest crew caught drinking, not thinking

PeanuckleCRJ said:
Ok, so alcohol absorbtion varies, but sheesh... if it's a 12 hour rule and you blow .35, that was a lot more than 4-6 beers and less than 12 hours.

I love a glass of whiskey, but man, if I've had 2 glasses my wife can smell it on me for over 12 hours. You've got to be careful out there and remember the priorities. We're mostly type A individuals thus highly prone to "addiction." (i.e. very OCD and routine oriented- I don't believe so much in alcohol addiction, I believe it is more behavioral addiction and self control) Remember you fly airplanes to fund your drinking, not the other way around. :)

I didn't see if they broke the threshold of the plane or not... was that specified? That is typically the career ender if you walk on board.
Click to expand...

Just because you may not believe in alcohol addiction, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Alcoholism is well documented to be an addiction and disease. It may not begin that way, but over time, there are physical changes in the brain that make it difficult (sometimes impossible) without intervention from professionals for an individual to stop drinking.
 
Cruise said:
Just because you may not believe in alcohol addiction, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Alcoholism is well documented to be an addiction and disease. It may not begin that way, but over time, there are physical changes in the brain that make it difficult (sometimes impossible) without intervention from professionals for an individual to stop drinking.
Click to expand...
And this is also why I don't buy into in the b.s. statements about how it's no one else's business what someone does when they are not on duty, yet on a trip. It is my business if they are paired with me on any trip. It's not only a matter of safety while on duty, but people need help and a wake up call. You may actually not only be saving their career, but their life. To turn a blind eye, is akin to someone saying here that as long as you are legal, it's fine to fly with a hang over. Really? Is that the standard that the pax and your company expects from you? Are you going to be at your best mentally and physically if something goes tits up, in such a state? Are you going to make the best decisions and perform to the best of your ability while feeling like crap?

Alcoholism is a serious disease. Denial and enabling comes in many forms.
 
Cruise said:
Just because you may not believe in alcohol addiction, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Alcoholism is well documented to be an addiction and disease. It may not begin that way, but over time, there are physical changes in the brain that make it difficult (sometimes impossible) without intervention from professionals for an individual to stop drinking.
Click to expand...

This.

Alcohol IS A DRUG. It has chemical properties that act on the central nervous system.

Not everyone who drinks is an alcoholic, but yes, alcoholism most certainly is a disease with a very real, physiological basis. It's hell for the individual, and is also hell for those in the individual's life.
 
Boris Badenov said:
You're right, it is, without question. So where did you get your MD?
Click to expand...
No one needs an MD to know and understand this. But some, (by reading the posts in this thread) obviously need some enlightenment on the subject.
Boris Badenov said:
And your opinion just doesn't interest me that much.
Click to expand...
If this is the case, why are you still bothering to reply to my posts?
 
A Life Aloft said:
If this is the case, why are you still bothering to reply to my posts?
Click to expand...

Because you're setting yourself up as some sort of extrajudicial Authority on Alcoholism. Which is a real, very serious thing. And when some self-appointed apparatchik starts running around casting everyone with whom they disagree as "having a problem", the real Problem doesn't get dealt with correctly and we're left with a witch-hunt disaster wherein real people really get hurt. Provided that I show up when I'm told to, clean, sober, and ready to fly, what I do in my off time is NOYFB. This isn't an opinion, it's a fact. As in "legally". If you want to proscribe alcohol consumption for people who aren't you, perhaps you'd be more comfortable in one of those Muslim states you're always posting love notes to?
 
I know a lot of guys with potential alcohol problems, at least in my estimation.

But they don't show up to work impaired so that's something they've got to work out on their own.

I had a 48 hour layover once and we were going to meet at 1600 for happy hour. This guy is already blasted when he meets the captain and I. We go out and he's throwing down drinks like he's playing a game of "Tapper"*

The next day, same thing. Shows up for happy already already pre-gamed and got pissy drunk.

The day of the flight, he's dressed, unimpaired, does not smell like alcohol, no indication at all that he was on a two-day bender.

Not concerned in the least because when it was time to suit up and play the game, he was fine.







*watched "Wreck it Ralph" during break a few weeks ago.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Because you're setting yourself up as some sort of extrajudicial Authority on Alcoholism. Which is a real, very serious thing. And when some self-appointed apparatchik starts running around casting everyone with whom they disagree as "having a problem", the real Problem doesn't get dealt with correctly and we're left with a witch-hunt disaster wherein real people really get hurt. Provided that I show up when I'm told to, clean, sober, and ready to fly, what I do in my off time is NOYFB. This isn't an opinion, it's a fact. As in "legally". If you want to proscribe alcohol consumption for people who aren't you, perhaps you'd be more comfortable in one of those Muslim states you're always posting love notes to?
Click to expand...
Really, what love notes have I ever posted about Muslim states? I have no idea wth you are talking about. I am pretty sure that you don't either, but if it makes you feel better, vent. I am and have not set myself up as anything. I have merely taken a stance, much as you have taken yours. If you don't agree with that stance or it bothers you, oh well. You'll live. I have never stated that every one who drinks has a problem either, but the hyperbole on your end is interesting. Go ahead and drink every day you are off, because I seriously don't care. At least it hasn't made you bitter.
 
As stated in some of the posts above, alcoholism is a disease. I lost three friends in college from a drunk driving accident. A drunk driver hit them. I have also dealt with family members and work colleagues to get help and get on the road to recovery. In an office environment like I work in, I may never know that someone in my office got into recovery. He just went on "vacation" for a couple of weeks and he's back. He is dealing with his recovery privately with his 12-step, counselors, family whatever.

In aviation there appears to be bigger challenges. As stated above many pilots are Type-A "We can handle it", you travel a lot, stressful, and even if you voluntarily, or with an intervention from friends and family, go into recovery, you must report it to the FAA. In the office job example the employee doesn't have to legally tell anyone, but as a pilot, you must tell the FAA. Bingo..you are grounded, have to go to HIMS, counseling etc, and document it all. I think it creates a roadblock for some pilots to get help. I welcome the pilot's group opinion on this.

Also as related by Derg a few posts up:

"The day of the flight, he's dressed, unimpaired, does not smell like alcohol, no indication at all that he was on a two-day bender"

Keep in mind that even though he looks OK, he may be suffering from a hangover, which is technically still under the influence:

from the PHAK:
Pg 16-14

"While experiencing a hangover, a pilot is still under the influence of alcohol."
 
Another non-rule. All kinds of entities cover their ample kind-quarters with non-language (because language suggests it actually signifies something) like that. They might as well write "If you've ever had a drink in your life or been bad or done anything wrong by anyone's standards, ever we are not liable!". It's pointless and retarded and drags down the dialectic to its own sub-moronic level. The real problem is that no one wants to confront the reality that actual, breathing human beings operate the aviation applliances. Just as actual, breahing human beings maintain, park, and service them. And these people are, inevitably, more than their job description. They are going to want to entertain themselves, whether it's through mostly-harmless drinking, or maybe just a little kiddie-porn or a bit of light snuff-film murder. You know when they get mad, though? When you suggest to a fat person that they ought to go on a diet or buy two seats. It is to lulz.
 
Boris:

If you are referring to the quote I put up, it is a personal judgement call on the part of the pilot. It is very gray. How does one determine that I have a hangover? I am just stating the FAA's position on hangovers.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top