"Skipping" the Regionals

wheelsup

wheelsup

Well-Known Member
\"Skipping\" the Regionals

This isn't a "will the majors be around in 5 years" or a "the pay at the majors is going down the tubes" post. My eventual goal is the majors so let's just pretend everything will be peachy-keen.

Anyway, after having discussions about regional pay and taking a look at my current financial situation, I just don't want to take a 40-50% pay cut and go to being a regional f/o for several years. It just doesn't make financial sense. I'm thinking about corporate aviation and wondering how many guys went from corporate 91 to a mainline 121 carrier. Is it possible, or do the majority of pilots hired at the majors (ok, majority of pilots hired years ago
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) have previous 121 regional exp.?

I don't think FedEx requires 121 exp, but Airtran does (500 hours PIC). What about Delta, NWA, AA, UPS, SWA, etc.?

I ask because I've recently been investigating job postings in the 91 world and they're starting around 50-60k as PIC on turbine equip. It seems that it would make much more financial sense to go to a job that makes 50 g's from the start and work for 5 -7 years as PIC then go to a regional at 18k and have that build slowly to the 60-70k mark by year 7-10.

Thoughts?
~wheelsup
 
Re: \"Skipping\" the Regionals

With insurance requirements on the rise, good luck getting a high paying corporate gig without paying your dues somewhere first. Whether it's the regionals or elsewhere, if you're going to the majors and not going through the military, you're gonna have to put up with the s**tty pay just like the rest of us.
 
Re: \"Skipping\" the Regionals

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It seems that it would make much more financial sense to go to a job that makes 50 g's from the start and work for 5 -7 years as PIC then go to a regional.......

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One question: How do you plan on getting a "PIC" job flying a corporate jet making $50K+? It takes years and lots of turbine time. I'm a 26 year old mid-size jet captain with a moderate amount of total time and a good amount of turbine. I am extremely blessed and thankful for the opportunities afforded to me, but my situation is much more the exception than the rule, and I've been at it for 4 years!
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My points are these: 1. First of all, it's a lot more likely that you'd get a charter job before you would even come close to any corporate flight department minimums (depends on equipment).

2. I agree with you! There are many reasons why going charter/corporate is better than the regional airlines. Weather you're on a path to a major airline in the future or not.

Another Question: What is your experience and what are your times (if you don't mind)?
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Re: \"Skipping\" the Regionals

The above are all true-you'll have to pay your dues in the corporate ranks as well - however - **generally** those dues will pay more than the regional so personally I think you're on the right track.

There are many guys that have gone from pt. 91 gigs(and even more from 135 charter jobs) to the majors but not many and do you know why?? Because if you find yourself a good corporate job you won't want to go to the airlines. Personally I think corporate flying is a 100000000% better lifestyle and many agree with me and of course many disagree - just depends on what YOU want. Yes people have sucessfully made the transition from part 91 to 121 jobs.

Jason
 
Re: \"Skipping\" the Regionals

When I was starting out in this career I didn't think I wanted to go to the regionals either. In fact I planned to do the same thing you are doing. A friend of mine is a captain for United and used to be on the hiring committee a few years back. When I asked him the same question you just asked his answer was, "The majors are interested in candidates who have prior scheduled 121 experience." He emphasized the fact that at that time most corporate flying wasn't scheduled flying, and that the majors like to see experience with scheduled carriers. Obviously, you can get a job with a fractional company who conducts scheduled operations, but my advice is take the pay cut and fly for a regional. Or, go corporate and try to get a job with Frontier.
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Re: \"Skipping\" the Regionals

Certainly if flying corporate is going to give you more days off at home, I'd look into it.

So far, the hardest part of my job is being on the road so much. If you're not happily married or single, it's easy, but when you actually enjoy hanging out with the Mrs, it can become difficult.

But then, she enjoys her free time without having Mr. Taylor in the house so it's much more easier on her than it is me.
 
Re: \"Skipping\" the Regionals

Well lets say that you do get a corporate gig starting off at $50-60k. When you get hired at a major your prolly gonna take a pay cut.
I believe most majors start off at $30-45k a year maybe even less for the first year your not in the union. If your airline even has a union on board.

Matthew
 
Re: \"Skipping\" the Regionals

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Well lets say that you do get a corporate gig starting off at $50-60k

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Ain't gonna happen......
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Re: \"Skipping\" the Regionals

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I don't think FedEx requires 121 exp, but Airtran does (500 hours PIC). What about Delta, NWA, AA, UPS, SWA, etc.?

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Southwest doesn't require it. I met a WN F/O who was flying Part 135 with Ameriflight who straight to SWA from there. They got into PIC turbine in a short amount of time and a year or so later applied to SWA. They don't require PIC MULTI turbine either. I know of an individual who got their 1,000 PIC in a Caravan flying skydivers (although they did have a current 121 F/O job in a Jetstream when they were hired).
 
Re: \"Skipping\" the Regionals

Definitly smart to skip the regionals.There are other ways to get turbine pic and still make more money then the regionals.And if you want to work for a major down the road they don't care how you got your time.
 
Re: \"Skipping\" the Regionals

I'm not necessarily sure if I'd agree with that statement 100%

But let me send an email to someone I know who is intimately familiar with a major airlines view on the subject and get back to you!

Might be a couple days or so.
 
Re: \"Skipping\" the Regionals

If i remember correctly doesn't JetBlue require a minimum weight of aircraft to be used when applying. I think it was the B1900 that wasnt heavy enough so they wouldnt count it towards the Turbine time on their application.


here this was taken from their website

"• 1000 hours in airplanes at or above 20,000 pounds (maximum takeoff weight)"
 
Re: \"Skipping\" the Regionals

I think a 1900's max is around 18,000 or something. I can't remember! I don't know why I even tried to answer!
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Re: \"Skipping\" the Regionals

BE-1900D. Max ramp 16,950. Max TO 16,600. If my memory serves ... it's been quite a while.
 
One airline\'s view

Ok this is from "the person" who was director of pilot selection for a major international airline:

My question:

Paraphrased a little because I wanted to assure his anonymoity:

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How closely did the 'major airline' that you performed pilot selection for value prior 121 and 135 scheduled experience? Or was it just about the time in the logbook?

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His answer:
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Great question! Total Time is meaningless if not evaluated against background. Typical argument went something like this:

Three pilots applying for a job:

A) has 1350 Total Hours, all multi engine jet, 1150 as PIC
B) has 4500 hours Total Time, 3000 Hours Multi engine, with slightly less than 700 hours as PIC
C) has 7500 hours Total time, with 2500 Multi Engine, and 5000 hours PIC.

Now lets look at the applicants with further amplification:

A) was single engine USAF/USN/USMC Fighter Pilot. Subtract 200 Hours for pilot training the rest is all by him/her self. At an average of three hundred hours a year, that is almost four years of experience in high performance aircraft, in world wide service, all weather types with at least 30% a given of solid night, no moon flying. Oh by the way, takeoffs equals landings columns. Typically was a Flight Leader, and could have been an Instructor and or an Evaluator(APD).

Analysis - Strong Candidate Invite for Interview

B) Was civilian trained either post degree or in conjunction with a flight program at an aviation department equipped college. Solid basic aviation training foundation, and a Freight or Corporate accepted the individual with low time to fly in all types of weather. Gradual build up of multiengine recip time, enough to either upgrade at the Freight/Corporate job or enough to qualify for the Regionals. A couple of years at the Regionals flying multiengine turbo-props or even RJ's. Last 12 - 18 months flying as Captain either in Turbos or RJ's.

Analysis - Strong Candidate Invite for interview.

Additional note: Strength is not only in flight time but quality of time. This individual has been flying a flight schedule for freight, corporate, and a regional. Has great weather/night experience and crew/pax experience.

C) Was civilian trained. Was trained but chose for whatever reason to take flight time building employment. A lot of power line,banner towing, and general nonscheduled flying. A lot of day VFR basic student CFI time. Most of the Multiengine time is moving a wide variety of aircraft across country for various "customers". The 5000 Hrs PIC is almost all in non-crew aircraft. Quality of weather and night time hard to distinguish. Maybe even occasional time in jets, but less than 100 hours of any one type aircraft, same for turboprops.

Analysis - Weak candidate, reject, not competitive with the average applicant.

So short answer to your question is yes, we looked hard at the backgrounds. Oh, we knew most of the 121 Carrier's cold and could find out about the type flying of the 135's fairly easy.

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Re: One airline\'s view

Good stuff. Any chance of getting more comparisons? You know, milk your source for all he's worth???
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(Advice: don't let this information disappear into oblivion when this thread goes away.)
 
Re: One airline\'s view

He's probably one of the coolest guys on earth. Very straightforward.

It'd be cool to start a 'Ask the Pro" feature on the site, but I'm not sure if he'd be able to hang with the deluge of email and questions!
 
Re: One airline\'s view

I think the question should have been more towards how they viewed the value of 121 time vs. 135 time...that wasn't really answered.

For example....would they prefer to hire a hard IFR, night flying, single pilot ops freight dog OR a button pushing, glass cockpit regional driver? Turbine time being equal between the two applicants.

Just curious what his thoughts on that would be.
 
Re: One airline\'s view

I may be fairly new to the game, but I believe your question is answered.
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I think the question should have been more towards how they viewed the value of 121 time vs. 135 time...that wasn't really answered.

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B) ...a Freight or Corporate accepted the individual with low time to fly in all types of weather. Gradual build up of multiengine recip time, enough to either upgrade at the Freight/Corporate job or enough to qualify for the Regionals. A couple of years at the Regionals flying multiengine turbo-props or even RJ's. Last 12 - 18 months flying as Captain either in Turbos or RJ's.


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Just reading the question, and without making too many assumptions it appears the 121/135 time was viewed as one in the same.
 
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