Skiles and Age 65+

ppragman said:
having lived in South Dakota I think I would self-immolate if I was forced to live there again. It was like living in a •tier version of Edmonton without any of the advantages of living in Canada.
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I'm friends with a guy from ND and a gal from SD in my job flying in the reserves. They debate which is the true North Korea of the Dakotas.....which is who's crappy place is less crappy than the other's. I've only flown through rapid city, never been to the north, so I can't comment. She did go to sturgis last year, and sent us a great video of the Gov rambling some dumb stuff on stage stuff which was entertaining.
 
Now that I’m a nearly capped scale 73 CA at a major, I say bring on Age 67. I’ll take it. Those damn kids can be frozen 2 additional years as RJ FOs. “Back in my day” we were frozen as RJ FOs for 5 yrs thanks to age 65, so stop your whining. :)



Two comments…

Why all the retirement and savings talk? Saving for retirement as an airline pilot? Y’all know the (supposed) avg age of airline pilots dying is around upper 60s. Not sure any of us will live long enough to enjoy retirement.


Why quit early after you finally make it? Assuming my shop lasts, I retire #3 and spend something like the last 12 yrs in top 10%. That’s basically 18-20 day off lines and 41 days of vacation, which you could spread out to 5 days each month (17.5 hrs) for 8 months in the year. Uber Senior CA is basically a semi retired job. You might fly 9-10 days the whole month! Why give that up?

Guess I’m not seeing the angle. Why go from 300k+ Yr with 20 days off monthly to $0 with 30 days off/month.

And for you young cats 38-45 who say you would retire today if you could afford to financially, get outta here :)
What ya gonna do at this young age if not work? I honestly don’t know what I’d do if you told me I couldn’t work (pilot, engineer, anything). 30s and 40s are your prime earning years. If not work, then what? Rot in some hobby? :)
 
I'd say if you enjoy still doing it and aren't a liability, more power to those folks. Realistically, 65 is pretty old for a lot of folks. I believe the argument is that retiring earlier than 65 from a 121 job has a statistically significant impact on life expectancy. So if 65 is bad, what is 67? Of course nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head and telling them to fly into an early death.....back to my first point. I'm not sure that the juice is worth the squeeze though, from the airline's perspective; we're obviously talking about keeping the absolute most expensive labor around for 2 additional years to avoid just hiring and upgrading people who are (in some cases much) cheaper. Maybe the pilot shortage is worse than I believe it to be though.
 
///AMG said:
I'm friends with a guy from ND and a gal from SD in my job flying in the reserves. They debate which is the true North Korea of the Dakotas.....which is who's crappy place is less crappy than the other's. I've only flown through rapid city, never been to the north, so I can't comment. She did go to sturgis last year, and sent us a great video of the Gov rambling some dumb stuff on stage stuff which was entertaining.
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theyre both equally awful - Bismarck has a pretty view to the west but I’ll voluntarily self-wood-chipper before I return to Fargo.

In SoDak I really think Pierre and Mitchel aren’t “terrible” but in terms of quality, living in South Dakota (particularly in the winter) reminds me of a bad hangover - presumably you could Do something or be productive or enjoy yourself, but it’s unlikely. You feel sick and everyone annoys you, so you Isolate inside and wait for it to pass. Presumably most of the residents do this for their whole life.
 
ppragman said:
theyre both equally awful - Bismarck has a pretty view to the west but I’ll voluntarily self-wood-chipper before I return to Fargo.

In SoDak I really think Pierre and Mitchel aren’t “terrible” but in terms of quality, living in South Dakota (particularly in the winter) reminds me of a bad hangover - presumably you could Do something or be productive or enjoy yourself, but it’s unlikely. You feel sick and everyone annoys you, so you Isolate inside and wait for it to pass. Presumably most of the residents do this for their whole life.
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Hah, Pierre (peeeer right?) and Mitchel were both regular fuel stops of ours when I was a kid and the fam would fly the plane out to IA from OR in the summer.
 
///AMG said:
Hah, Pierre (peeeer right?) and Mitchel were both regular fuel stops of ours when I was a kid and the fam would fly the plane out to IA from OR in the summer.
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yeah. “Peer” and the Mitchel Corn Palace.

the least awful place in a sea of awful garbage lol
 
BobDDuck said:
Well, there goes any respect I had for that guy. And he lived through the age 65 change too.

www.forbes.com

Hero Pilot Backs Easy Fix To Pilot Shortage: Just Let Us Fly Past Age 65

Pilot hero Jeff Skiles, first officer on US Airways Flight 1549 that landed in the Hudson River 13 years ago this week, sees a simple solution to the pilot shortage. Just let pilots who are over 65 keep flying, Skiles says.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
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Duuuuude, I’m tired at 51. I can only imagine how I’d feel at 65 plus in the airline business.

Corporate, maybe, but multiple legs per day dealing with The Muggles, Skiles is high.

But luckily, I’m in my “eff you” years where I might just quit one day and that’s it.
 
hah I just realized I said I had only been to rapid city.....so I lied. Thanks for jogging my memory. Now if only I knew what ever became of the fantastic 1970's Chrysler loaner that Miles City used to hand out. I hope she rests peacefully now.
 
Derg said:
The Muggles
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Wouldn't have understood this reference until about a week ago when my oldest boy became obsessed with the books/movies. Do you also have a strange interest in DB Cooper by chance? Said boy somehow learned of this story, and has now coopted his younger brother into playing this game where he is DB cooper and the younger bro is the FBI looking for him. It is possibly the most ridiculous and hilarious thing I've ever witnessed, least because he knows nearly none of the correct details. I've since buried a stack of $20's in the least drained area of our backyard so that can be the poor "FBI" agent's first clue.
 
///AMG said:
Wouldn't have understood this reference until about a week ago when my oldest boy became obsessed with the books/movies. Do you also have a strange interest in DB Cooper by chance? Said boy somehow learned of this story, and has now coopted his younger brother into playing this game where he is DB cooper and the younger bro is the FBI looking for him. It is possibly the most ridiculous and hilarious thing I've ever witnessed, least because he knows nearly none of the correct details. I've since buried a stack of $20's in the least drained area of our backyard so that can be the poor "FBI" agent's first clue.
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DB Cooper is big here in Vancouver, since that's where he jumped out. There's even a brewery based on it.

But your kid might enjoy this. I did it with friends recently and it was a lot of fun.
nwescapeexperience.com

Operation: DB Cooper | Escape Room | NW Escape Experience

Will you find the high flying hijacker inside with his cash, or is it all another empty lead in the case of Operation: DB Cooper?
nwescapeexperience.com nwescapeexperience.com
 
Derg said:
Duuuuude, I’m tired at 51. I can only imagine how I’d feel at 65 plus in the airline business.

Corporate, maybe, but multiple legs per day dealing with The Muggles, Skiles is high.

But luckily, I’m in my “eff you” years where I might just quit one day and that’s it.
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Corporate? Want to hustle somebody elses bags/skis/clubs?
Want to roll up a magazine to try and shove a dookie down the toilet because there’s nobody else to do it for you in Umptesquat, Manitoba?
Want to spend all day on Google translate negotiating with the generalissimo of some Central American airport for hangar space or an armed guard?
Want to vacuum ground Cheerios and clean up …uh… (what is that stain) after a long day flying because they trashed the jet?
Want to be tapped on the shoulder during an ILS to minimums because the coffee pot isn’t working?
Want to spend all day in Teterboro waiting with the APU running because they SAID they’ll be ready to leave at 10am but they ACTUALLY roll in around 4pm.
Want to spend your free time doing expense reports and justifying hotel, rental car, meal expenses?

Airline flying is 99% flying and 1%BS. Corporate flying was 99%BS and 1% flying.
Its like being on reserve your whole career with no work rules.
Its like flying with the least standardized pilots at your airline EVERY DAY.

SO…nope. Do not recommend. It’ll be a dark day before I ever consider any kind of business jet flying ever again.
 
I can’t imagine flying past 55…. I’m 49 and already looking at how to start flying less…

the only thing stopping me is that the 10 years of being a regional airline pilot FO making 45k made it hard to save anything for retirement, after leaving the regionals for a ULCC we were finally able to clear out all of the debt acquired during the regional airline years. after upgrading, the pay raise went strictly to retirement funding…. Maxing out both 401ks and IRAs, maxing out the HSA, and doing a little more taxable investments and taking whatever DC the airline pays.

i fear that I need 15 more years of maxing out the retirement contributions to be at a point where we would feel comfortable retiring from flying. I need to get my side gig running so that my side gig produces income to ramp down flying. The only reason to keep the toes in the airline is so that I can still be covered by the HDHP to keep maxing out the HSA.

do people really want to keep flying past 65? I think that nuts.
 
bLizZuE said:
Apparently we had a LEC meeting where someone floored a resolution to direct the MEC to advocate for an age increase from 65 to 67.
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They pop up periodically, but then the makers either don't show or lots and lots of pilots show up to shout them down. They never go anywhere.

Personally, I think the biggest deal these days is new guys and gals have NO idea what was lost. To replicate a pension like what @DE727UPS has in today's market on a personal basis is an insane amount of money, and to think that a 15% 401k contribution in any way replicates that is just silly.

Lots of kids these days "grew up" with a market that returned 10% and interest rates at 2%. They think that's the way things are and will go on forever. In reality, those numbers are a historical aberration, and when they swap, and they inevitably will, there's going to be a lot of caterwauling, especially when inflation hits 10%.

To put numbers to it, a $400k earnings average at 60% (a typical major pension in the past) is $240k. Lets say the actuarials think you're going to live 25 years past retirement, and that the current long term interest rate is 3% (VERY high assumption, at the moment). In today dollars, that pension needs 3.1 million in funding.

The other thing people underestimate is the power of the long term interest rate on pensions. Everyone seems to think that pension funding is figured by market returns, which is absolutely not true. ERISA rules drive pension funding calculations, and the only returns that are permitted for the fund are plain old long term interest. Like what you'd get in a CD or savings account. It is actually irrelevant how the fund actually performs, except the balance at the funding calculation. Your fund may have actually returned 10% the year before, but the only way that is figured into the calculation is the balance. But toss in a 3% interest rate over the actuarial period of the beneficiary, and you wind up with an absurd funding requirement.

The interesting thing is lets say interest rates go back up to their long term historical average of about 7%. First off, lots of people who have their entire portfolio revolving around cheap money are going to lose their ass, and the entire housing market, as it exists today, will collapse, but that's going to be a story for another time. That same pension above that needed 3.1 in funding now only requires 2.1 million. What's more interesting is that the remaining pensions out there, have been driven to be funded under the current circumstances will, overnight, be massively overfunded under the new interest rates. With relatively modest interest rates, pensions actually can fund themselves, requiring NO contributions.

It will be very interesting to see what employers do at that point.
 
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