SJS article question

aloft said:
You (and most CFIs, really) seem to be under the impression that instructing is the ONLY way to learn this stuff, and that's a pretty narrow viewpoint.
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You seem to be putting words into my mouth. I've never said instructing is the only way to learn this stuff. In the post you quoted, I explained how flight instruction helped me and is beneficial to people moving on in the industry. Apparently the point was lost on you.
 
aloft said:
I've only been flying traffic since October. Before that, I was chief pilot for one of the Pictometry aerial mapping vendors. And let me tell you about aerial mapping flying: it's the most precise flying I'll probably ever do. Having to maintain a ground track within .022nm (do the math, that's about 130 feet) regardless of winds aloft, altitude within 100' and very narrow pitch, bank and crab limits, while operating the on-board camera system, communicating continuously with ATC and remaining vigilant for traffic in some of the country's busiest airspace requires not only solid stick & rudder skills, but every bit of mental concentration that flying an approach to minimums does. It's like flying an endless ILS for hours on end, every day.
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I think you mean it's like flying a localizer, but I get your point. I've always felt that each form of aviation has it's own unique sets of challenges, and that the more of these areas we experience the better pilots we become. I have no doubt I'd learn quite a bit my doing aerial mapping, and would probably enjoy the learning process quite a bit.

On top of that, I've got mountain flying training and mountain search & rescue experience. Remember the search for Steve Fossett? Yeah, I was part of that effort.
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I agree, that's great experience. I was fortunate enough to do a lot of my training in Colorado and California. I've flown out of the highest paved airport in North America (KLXV, almost 10,000 ft), and it's pretty amazing stuff. Good fun, and a great learning experience. I still remember getting caught in mtn wave for the first time and how freaky it was.

My intent isn't to toot my own horn here, but it's my opinion that the diversity of my flying experience blows that of the average CFI with comparable times out of the water. Of course, one's mileage may vary, and there may be some CFIs out there with high-quality experience too. Moreover, being a good stick doesn't make one a good pilot; developing sound aeronautical judgment is every bit as vital--moreso, in fact. And here, I concede, CFIs may have an advantage.
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It's up to each pilot to make the most out of their training experience. If one is building cross country time, why not fly across the country? Never did understand those that flew up and down the FL for 200 hrs or whatever. Sounds boring. If one is training for the CFI, why not take some aerobatic lessons? It's a great way to cover the spin signoff, it's a lot of fun, and develops invaluable confidence for teaching students.

I've been able to experience a lot of the stuff you seem to have, plus a few more things when I had < 1,000 hrs. Still, I'd hardly say my experiences blew others with comparable time out of the water. I've known plenty of people that made my experiences look downright trivial.

And just for the record, none of this is to suggest that I'm a better pilot than jtrain, or vice-versa. We're both solid pilots, I have no doubt of that. He's got his strengths just as I've got mine. Just making the case that instructing isn't the only path to becoming one.
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I think that's a very mature viewpoint and something that we can all agree on.
 
aloft said:
Fixed. Still trying to figure out how experience flying a jet that's on autopilot most of the time is gonna help stick and rudder skills.
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I can't believe you made a serious response to my post.
 
Just curious...

At what point do the "low time super-wonder-pilots" no longer bear this title? 1000 hours? 3000 hours? When they upgrade? When they get hired by a major? Never?

If it's never, then I'm screwed. I'm probably screwed anyways, since I don't fit the message board cookie-cutter profile for a professional airline pilot.
 
FlyChicaga said:
Just curious...

At what point do the "low time super-wonder-pilots" no longer bear this title? 1000 hours? 3000 hours? When they upgrade? When they get hired by a major? Never?

If it's never, then I'm screwed. I'm probably screwed anyways, since I don't fit the message board cookie-cutter profile for a professional airline pilot.
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It really depends on your stick and rudder skills. You want a slot in the contest too? ;)
 
FlyChicaga said:
Just curious...

At what point do the "low time super-wonder-pilots" no longer bear this title? 1000 hours? 3000 hours? When they upgrade? When they get hired by a major? Never?

If it's never, then I'm screwed. I'm probably screwed anyways, since I don't fit the message board cookie-cutter profile for a professional airline pilot.
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What would that profile be?

As to the first part of your post, I would agree with the sentiment...There is always going to be someone who has more hours and thinks the 'lower-time' pilots are just that; lower time.

I mean if someone gets in with low time and meets the mins, I have a hard time buying that means trouble. They still have to prove themselves on the job and in the cockpit.
 
I'll admit I only skimmed this thread, but I'll just add this:

Flight instruction DOES hone your piloting skills in a way you can't achieve in regular airline operations.

I guess I'm a bit prejudiced because in the Navy we didn't have sims for the airplanes I taught in. You had to go out and do the manuevers. That meant demonstrating how to fly a buttonhook around the ship's superstructure. Or single engine approaches with the King Air's prop feathered. Or full flap/no slat landings in the DC-9.

It also gave you a better understanding of aircraft systems than the average line pilot because you had to check guy's knowledge of the same systems.

That's all.
 
FlyChicaga said:
Just curious...

At what point do the "low time super-wonder-pilots" no longer bear this title? 1000 hours? 3000 hours? When they upgrade? When they get hired by a major? Never?

If it's never, then I'm screwed. I'm probably screwed anyways, since I don't fit the message board cookie-cutter profile for a professional airline pilot.
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I mean basically, you're always going to be a hack. There's pretty much nothing you can do, because some internet tough guy is ALWAYS going to be able to one up you.

And it doesn't help you smell really bad by day four.
 
Soooo... who's got the biggest dick around here? :sarcasm:
You guys are cracking me up with taking measurements.

Reminds me of the Walmart Teddybear with the pilots hat and the sunglasses... when you pushed it's left paw it would say:

You are a great Pilot! Really!
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-Just posting because nobody else has said it yet-

I instruct with my feet flat on the floor and hand drooped somewhere in my lap or crossed.

You can see them trying to kill you before they even know they are doing it.
 
Ian J said:
Sigh. We won't know that until they complete my contest! Geesh!

:D
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Sure would be a fun event to watch. Count me as a spectator standing on the sidelines. I'll sell the popcorn and usual pilot porn stuff.
Just came home from a nice day at the airport, with lots of free edu... edmusi... well lets say I learned a lot.

Always let other people talk out of their ass. SJS people are just offended because they cannot stand the thought that there is in fact a lack of skill, ability and integrity to be found in their ranks. Once you bring it up you will usually get a shower. Pissing contests... look Ma'... no hands!!! :D
 
Ian J said:
- Each must go up with a student who cross-controls the base to final turn. The student will be played by Seggy and will mimic panic by mashing and freezing on one of the rudder panels. The first to spin and crash loses a point.
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I'm going to need to bow out of this contest if you don't mind...
 
Douglas said:
-Just posting because nobody else has said it yet-

I instruct with my feet flat on the floor and hand drooped somewhere in my lap or crossed.

You can see them trying to kill you before they even know they are doing it.
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Thats how I was doing it.
 
FlyChicaga said:
Just curious...

At what point do the "low time super-wonder-pilots" no longer bear this title? 1000 hours? 3000 hours? When they upgrade? When they get hired by a major? Never?

If it's never, then I'm screwed. I'm probably screwed anyways, since I don't fit the message board cookie-cutter profile for a professional airline pilot.
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Pretty sure Jace replaced you as the lowest-time Pt 121 dude on here, so you're off the hook. ;)

Seriously, it's different for everybody. Judging from your current vantage point, how long was it before you feel you were an asset to your captains instead of just being along for the ride? To me, that's the differentiator.
 
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