SJS article question

[MattB]

twin turbo props are cool as hell until you've been flying them for a few years (121-135) in all sorts crappy weather into all sorts of crappy airports...but it still beats working for a living.

 

[Cessna414JJB]

The bolded part of your post is the entire point of the idea of SJS. Childhood dreams of flying, while true for many, is outside the scope of what the concept is about.

:yeahthat:

+1. It's not a childhood dream. It's supposed to be a profession.
And no, it does not beat "working" for a living.

 

[Matt13C]

Why havent unions pushed for required minimums at airlines? As someone who is early in his training, just under 150 hours, it would not be an ideal situation for them to change it now. However, if it meant a smaller pool of qualified applicants airlines would then have to start competing to attract and maintain their pilots. This would mean higher salary when I eventually made it to an airline, which would be a good thing.

I am all for paying your dues. I am prepared to instruct/banner tow/charter on weekends as long as it takes and save as much as possible before I quit my current job and persue flying as a career.

When I apply to an airline it will not be to the one accepting the lowest number of hours, but one offering the best QOL, this includes pay. When I get in I will do my part to help improve the profession any way I can.

 

[DPApilot]

I just looked at the article written back in 06 about Shiny Jet Syndrome, and I am left puzzled at one part of it. Where it says that Jimmy is a below 1,000 hour pilot and is a burden to the captains he flies with, and without autopilot he is borderline dangerous, what is the boy to do about it? How would a couple 'nother hundred hours instructing in a single engine plane help? What SHOULD I be doing after I graduate college with my flight degree to prepare for the regionals???

If you want, come out to dinner tonight and talk to Zap about what he wrote.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Sure, come on out...beat me up in the parking lot. Whatever.

 

[Bandit_Driver]

I really have no idea what any of these "part" flying types are. Is there a description anywhere?

thanks

Part 135 refers to 14 CFR 135 (the regs charter companies operate under) and Part 121 refers to 14 CFR 121 (the regs airlines operate under).

The traditional paths to the airlines used to be either going through the military where you received excellent training and experience or through a civilian program. This typically involved training at a local school or college and then turning around and instructing new students after you received your ratings. After being a CFI for a while you got a job flying night freight and a 135 company in a piston aircraft and hopefully would advance into a light turboprop or jets. You usually flew 135 for a couple years and after learning about the real world of flying and weather and scaring the crap out of yourself a few times you were then lucky enough to get a job at regional.


Snapshot of my Career

• 260 hours graduated with CFII and hired by a flight school
• 700 hours hired by a part 135 company
• 3000 hours hired by a regional turboprop carrier
• 4300 hours upgrade to a jet at the regional level
• 4400 hours hired to fly a 727

 

[Kestrel452]

I'd come, but I don't want to intrude on your dinner. I don't have a car here right now anyways.

 

[Trip7]

CFII helps tremendously in helping you become ready to fly a regional jet. The rest of flight instructing does almost nothing. Time in the IFR system is what will help you the most. Shoot all kinds of approaches with your student. Doing it in actual whenever you can is a must. If your flight school has a simulator get in that as much as possible during your off time and shoot approaches at 2x speed.

People on here advocate 135 so much because its probably the first time most people get extensive exposure to the IFR system since their instrument rating. Doing stalls, steep turns and putting around the pattern doing touch and go's is not going to prepare you to fly a regional jet.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

People on here advocate 135 so much because its probably the first time most people get extensive exposure to the IFR system since their instrument rating.

That's part of it. More importantly though, flying 135 gives you the opportunity to make choices as a PIC and to learn an important word -- No.

It is the first time that there will be pressure to be LESS conservative. You will be pressured (how much depends upon your company) and you are going to have to make the safe, legal decision. Flying in lousy weather, being comfortable flying approaches to minimums, and making the tough calls from time to time is what helps to train you to become a valuable first officer instead of just a seat-warmer.

I'll let someone else correct you on the virtues of primary flight instruction...

 

[Trip7]

I wrote this a while back and I think it brings my point home.

This brings me to my next thought. I think that instrument skills have alot to do with people struggling with 121 training. People harp CFI, CFI, CFI and rant all day about how much banging around the pattern will do for you. For me personally, my skills and confidence in my flying grew immensely at Skymates when I had a boat load of instrument students and I was constantly flying IFR in the busy DFW class B. On multi checkouts for timebuilding in twins I did I took those guys on IFR cross countries to help build their skills in the IFR system and they all told me they really appreciated it as you learn a whole lot. Radio communications, STARS/SIDS, talking to the same controllers the big boys are talking to, picking up clearance after clearance etc. When I was on breaks and sometimes after work, I jumped on the simulator we have there at Skymates and flew approach after approach as fast as I could. After alittle bit of practice even NDB approaches are easy Its extremely important to stay current on instruments. Those skill erode very fast when not used. After getting my instrument ticket I didn't fly instruments for 6 months until CFI school at Vegas and boy was it ugly. I believe instrument skills will make or break you in this career. After all thats all we do. Instead of harping about CFI, CFI, CFI, I preach CFII, CFII, and CFII. I challenge all of you aspiring airline pilots, go jump on your local school's simulator, heck even jump on MS Flight Sim, fly as many approaches as you can, fly em as fast as you can, then everyday search for a more a difficult approach. Fly the Quito, Ecuador approach. Fly the the St. Maarten approach. Fly an Aspen approach. Become an Instrument Skillz Extradinaire.

If you can walk into training with such a swag that you don't think anyone can top your instrument skills, you'll be absolutely fine in ground school. And no you won't be a burden to your Captain, you'll actually impress them!

 

[ZapBrannigan]

If you can walk into training with such a swag that you don't think anyone can top your instrument skills, you'll be absolutely fine in ground school. And no you won't be a burden to your Captain, you'll actually impress them!

You're astonishingly cocky. I sincerely hope that you are as good as your "swag" suggests.

 

[Bandit_Driver]

CFII helps tremendously in helping you become ready to fly a regional jet. The rest of flight instructing does almost nothing. Time in the IFR system is what will help you the most. Shoot all kinds of approaches with your student. Doing it in actual whenever you can is a must. If your flight school has a simulator get in that as much as possible during your off time and shoot approaches at 2x speed.

People on here advocate 135 so much because its probably the first time most people get extensive exposure to the IFR system since their instrument rating. Doing stalls, steep turns and putting around the pattern doing touch and go's is not going to prepare you to fly a regional jet.

Being a CFII does teach you a lot, especially if you take a student up in actual. However, as Zap said 135 gives you more real world experience in the 135 system and experience the pressure to fly. Also if work in one of the bad wx areas (e.g. the North East, Great Lakes, etc) you learn a lot about weather and those decisions it will also make you a great insturment pilot. I remember may trips shooting approaches to minimums several times a day.

Don't forget to learn holding inside and out. It is often a weak spot I have seen pilots have. It shows up in the sim and on the line ocassionally since it is something we don't do a whole lot of.

 

[Trip7]

You're astonishingly cocky. I sincerely hope that you are as good as your "swag" seems to boast.

Zap I'm not bout to get into another internet argument over stupid stuff. I'm giving the OP my advice on how to be prepared to fly an RJ.

 

[DPApilot]

Zap I'm not bout to get into another internet argument over stupid stuff. I'm giving the OP my advice on how to be prepared to fly an RJ.

Yeah Zap,
If we wanted to learn how to get a job at wal-mart, we'd come to you!

I wanna fly big jets, im not liking the propeller infront of me!

 

[jtrain609]

CFII helps tremendously in helping you become ready to fly a regional jet. The rest of flight instructing does almost nothing. Time in the IFR system is what will help you the most. Shoot all kinds of approaches with your student. Doing it in actual whenever you can is a must. If your flight school has a simulator get in that as much as possible during your off time and shoot approaches at 2x speed.

People on here advocate 135 so much because its probably the first time most people get extensive exposure to the IFR system since their instrument rating. Doing stalls, steep turns and putting around the pattern doing touch and go's is not going to prepare you to fly a regional jet.

You're a fool if you really believe that primary instruction doesn't help you in becoming a better pilot. The stick and rudder skills I developed while banging up the pattern in Arlington helped me when things turned varsity in the jet and I had to, get this, hand fly the thing. I know we like to say it's all button pushing and instrument procedures, but if you can't get the plane on the ground when it's gusting 45 knots and you've got moderate turbulence to 50', then you're worthless or more likely, a liability.

 

[aloft]

You're a fool if you really believe that primary instruction doesn't help you in becoming a better pilot. The stick and rudder skills I developed while banging up the pattern in Arlington helped me when things turned varsity in the jet and I had to, get this, hand fly the thing.

I don't disagree with you, but instructing isn't the only way to develop those stick and rudder skills by any stretch. Let's be honest, much of any instructor's dual-given time is with his/her hands in his lap and feet flat on the floor.

 

[jtrain609]

I don't disagree with you, but instructing isn't the only way to develop those stick and rudder skills by any stretch. Let's be honest, much of any instructor's dual-given time is with his/her hands in his lap and feet flat on the floor.

Says the guy that's never instructed.

My feet never, ever, EVER came off the rudder pedals. If you had ever instructed you'd know why.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

. . .wow, we haven't had one of these threads in awhile! anic:

 

[ctab5060X]

I'll take this over some of the other threads we have had lately...

 

[surreal1221]

It's all about swag huh?

:whatever:

That downhill slope sure is getting steep. . .