shuttle coming in over LA today (maybe)

I don't think the Shuttle carrier has the range with that dead weight on it's back! Besides, it's being retired in a few years, so who cares?

I wish it wasn't be replaced by a capsule design though, another space plane would be better.
 
I need to get my buns down to Florida and see a shuttle launch before the damn program ends...
 
Tax dollars WASTED?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
:confused: :mad:
You obviously have NO idea how invaluable America's Space Program is to our everyday lives, our future, and our technological dominance in the world.
You know how many tax dollars go from each American to the Space Program?? Any idea?? huh??
Yeah. Didn't think so. About 1/4 of a PENNY per person.
No tax dollars are WASTED.

I'm not sure in my post you got the idea that I thought the tax dollars were wasted. And of course I have no idea, other wise I would have injected that information in my post.

My post was a simple question of thought if they decided to build another launch pad at Edwards, would it be cost efficient compared to piggy backing the shuttle back to FL on the 747.

So for example over a ten year span 50 billion to build a new launch pad VS. 1.2 billion to carry the shuttle. Those are just random figured, but you get the idea.

So out of that again, I never said anything about tax dollars being wasted. huh?? huh???
 
I'm not sure in my post you got the idea that I thought the tax dollars were wasted. And of course I have no idea, other wise I would have injected that information in my post.

My post was a simple question of thought if they decided to build another launch pad at Edwards, would it be cost efficient compared to piggy backing the shuttle back to FL on the 747.

So for example over a ten year span 50 billion to build a new launch pad VS. 1.2 billion to carry the shuttle. Those are just random figured, but you get the idea.

So out of that again, I never said anything about tax dollars being wasted. huh?? huh???

I think the money-pit Shuttles should be sent to the boneyard in TUS, and the money spent on them used instead for healthcare and social/education programs....
 
MIKED,
AS someone who family is directly involved in the space program in Houston. I can assure you. The General Public, incl. congress... etc etc.. HAS NO IDEA the ramifications of not having a SHUTTLE PROGRAM in a year or two. Yes, the take A TON OF MONEY to operate, but think about the International consequences.

Everyone is about saving money right now, and when the SHUTTLE PROGRAM ENDS, then all of a sudden reality will kick in and say, HOLY CRAP, we have to rely on foreign countries for the next 5 years to support our equipment in space and we now have "lost the space race" again. Scuttlebug is that there may not even be enough funding to START an orion project. And when i say scuttlebug, i actually mean info avail to the public on NASA funding.

Mark my words, people will all say, oh it wont be a big deal, etc etc... but end of next year or later whenever the last shuttle is slated... IT will already be too late for people to care about saving the shuttle program.

WE NEED TO KEEP THE SHUTTLES GOING UNTIL WE CAN GET OUR OTHER PROGRAM UP AND RUNNING!!

And those that question my motives... I won't say my last name, but my family is directly involved with the shuttle program, and when I say directly involved I mean.. DIRECTLY involved. That's all I will say about my families involvement. I am more than willing to talk to people over PM about why the shuttle program is a HUGE DEAL and why we need to keep it until Orion is functional, but for now in a PUBLIC forum, I would rather not continue to express my feelings/concerns in case it gets back to someone at JSC/KSC.

In the mean time, the rest of us just get to sit back and watch an end of an era if we can't get more funding.

AS someone said above.... 1/4 of a penny... its actually pretty accurate!
 
MIKED,
AS someone who family is directly involved in the space program in Houston. I can assure you. The General Public, incl. congress... etc etc.. HAS NO IDEA the ramifications of not having a SHUTTLE PROGRAM in a year or two. Yes, the take A TON OF MONEY to operate, but think about the International consequences.

Everyone is about saving money right now, and when the SHUTTLE PROGRAM ENDS, then all of a sudden reality will kick in and say, HOLY CRAP, we have to rely on foreign countries for the next 5 years to support our equipment in space and we now have "lost the space race" again. Scuttlebug is that there may not even be enough funding to START an orion project. And when i say scuttlebug, i actually mean info avail to the public on NASA funding.

Mark my words, people will all say, oh it wont be a big deal, etc etc... but end of next year or later whenever the last shuttle is slated... IT will already be too late for people to care about saving the shuttle program.

WE NEED TO KEEP THE SHUTTLES GOING UNTIL WE CAN GET OUR OTHER PROGRAM UP AND RUNNING!!

And those that question my motives... I won't say my last name, but my family is directly involved with the shuttle program, and when I say directly involved I mean.. DIRECTLY involved. That's all I will say about my families involvement. I am more than willing to talk to people over PM about why the shuttle program is a HUGE DEAL and why we need to keep it until Orion is functional, but for now in a PUBLIC forum, I would rather not continue to express my feelings/concerns in case it gets back to someone at JSC/KSC.

In the mean time, the rest of us just get to sit back and watch an end of an era if we can't get more funding.

AS someone said above.... 1/4 of a penny... its actually pretty accurate!

I agree, keep the shuttle around, to fly 3 flights a year, until we get the new system up. Speaking of the new system. Scrap the whole Ares-I booster program. It's never going to be controllable enough vibration wise, to allow for crew to be on the thing, without putting massive amounts of weight into a dampening system. Go out, build the capsule to fit on a Delta IV. Man rate said Delta IV, and we had a low cost system to put people in orbit.
 
MIKED,
AS someone who family is directly involved in the space program in Houston. I can assure you. The General Public, incl. congress... etc etc.. HAS NO IDEA the ramifications of not having a SHUTTLE PROGRAM in a year or two. Yes, the take A TON OF MONEY to operate, but think about the International consequences.

Everyone is about saving money right now, and when the SHUTTLE PROGRAM ENDS, then all of a sudden reality will kick in and say, HOLY CRAP, we have to rely on foreign countries for the next 5 years to support our equipment in space and we now have "lost the space race" again. Scuttlebug is that there may not even be enough funding to START an orion project. And when i say scuttlebug, i actually mean info avail to the public on NASA funding.

Mark my words, people will all say, oh it wont be a big deal, etc etc... but end of next year or later whenever the last shuttle is slated... IT will already be too late for people to care about saving the shuttle program.

WE NEED TO KEEP THE SHUTTLES GOING UNTIL WE CAN GET OUR OTHER PROGRAM UP AND RUNNING!!

And those that question my motives... I won't say my last name, but my family is directly involved with the shuttle program, and when I say directly involved I mean.. DIRECTLY involved. That's all I will say about my families involvement. I am more than willing to talk to people over PM about why the shuttle program is a HUGE DEAL and why we need to keep it until Orion is functional, but for now in a PUBLIC forum, I would rather not continue to express my feelings/concerns in case it gets back to someone at JSC/KSC.

In the mean time, the rest of us just get to sit back and watch an end of an era if we can't get more funding.

AS someone said above.... 1/4 of a penny... its actually pretty accurate!

I was being facetious with my post, but your answer here is a good and thorough one. I wonder why there isn't a follow-on STS-type program after the shuttles then, as important as space is and the support things like the space station require?
 
MIKED,
AS someone who family is directly involved in the space program in Houston. I can assure you. The General Public, incl. congress... etc etc.. HAS NO IDEA the ramifications of not having a SHUTTLE PROGRAM in a year or two. Yes, the take A TON OF MONEY to operate, but think about the International consequences.

Everyone is about saving money right now, and when the SHUTTLE PROGRAM ENDS, then all of a sudden reality will kick in and say, HOLY CRAP, we have to rely on foreign countries for the next 5 years to support our equipment in space and we now have "lost the space race" again. Scuttlebug is that there may not even be enough funding to START an orion project. And when i say scuttlebug, i actually mean info avail to the public on NASA funding.



Mark my words, people will all say, oh it wont be a big deal, etc etc... but end of next year or later whenever the last shuttle is slated... IT will already be too late for people to care about saving the shuttle program.

WE NEED TO KEEP THE SHUTTLES GOING UNTIL WE CAN GET OUR OTHER PROGRAM UP AND RUNNING!!

And those that question my motives... I won't say my last name, but my family is directly involved with the shuttle program, and when I say directly involved I mean.. DIRECTLY involved. That's all I will say about my families involvement. I am more than willing to talk to people over PM about why the shuttle program is a HUGE DEAL and why we need to keep it until Orion is functional, but for now in a PUBLIC forum, I would rather not continue to express my feelings/concerns in case it gets back to someone at JSC/KSC.

In the mean time, the rest of us just get to sit back and watch an end of an era if we can't get more funding.

AS someone said above.... 1/4 of a penny... its actually pretty accurate!


EXACTLY> And tha'ts coming from someone obviously on the 'inside'

As for building the Pad in California (Vandenburg, on the coast, not Edwards, because of the booster drop issue..)
That would be a fine idea - in some ways - However there are 2 problems, and probably more, that I can think of:
A. The reason Space Centers are located all over the US is to spread around the tax money.. I know most people 'only' know of Johnson Space Center in Houston and KSC in Florida.. but there's Marshall, Stennis, Goddard.. and probably a bunch more I can't think of right now.
B. As previously said, launching from Vandenburg puts you into a polar orbit.. and with the International Space Station being the only 'reason' for the shuttle's existence these days.. they wouldn't be able to get into the ISS's orbital plane. Hindsight being what it is.... well, you know lol

And if we end the shuttle program with nothing coming up.. either we leave the ISS orbiting and practically useless after all this hard work, or we rely on the Russian Soyuz to take us up/down.. do we really want that? I think not. YES it's an amazingly reliable vehicle, but anything can happen - what if they had a catastrophic accident? They'd be just like the US and have a full investigation and major modifacation of the problem-area that would take a good 2 years.. again, leaving ISS as nothing but 'space junk' effectively.

I've heard a proposal is on the table that would add 6 shuttle flights to the 6 already planned.. only do 2/year until another vehicle comes long.. but that requires money - think we could all kick in a HALF PENNY a year and make that, and so much more, possible?
 
And if we end the shuttle program with nothing coming up.. either we leave the ISS orbiting and practically useless after all this hard work, or we rely on the Russian Soyuz to take us up/down.. do we really want that? I think not. YES it's an amazingly reliable vehicle, but anything can happen - what if they had a catastrophic accident? They'd be just like the US and have a full investigation and major modifacation of the problem-area that would take a good 2 years.. again, leaving ISS as nothing but 'space junk' effectively.

I've heard a proposal is on the table that would add 6 shuttle flights to the 6 already planned.. only do 2/year until another vehicle comes long.. but that requires money - think we could all kick in a HALF PENNY a year and make that, and so much more, possible?

You've got one thing wrong with the Russian space program. If they have a loss, they don't really do a whole lot. They might try to fix the problem, might not. Just build another R-7 derivative booster, and put the Soyuz on it. And honestly, the Soyuz of today has gone through a significant evolution since its conception in the 1960's.

I'm all for keeping ISS up there, but we don't need the shuttle to do so. The only reason you need to keep the shuttle is to build it, and that's nearly done. Put that extra 6 flight money into accelerating the new Orion stuff, and we'll get the new system earlier. Plus, if SpaceX gets their new Falcon 9 launch vehicle going soon, they've got a contract with NASA to fly 12 resupply flights. Part of their plan is a manned capsule for the same booster. I think that's where we need to go, in regards to station operation.
 
You've got one thing wrong with the Russian space program. If they have a loss, they don't really do a whole lot. They might try to fix the problem, might not. Just build another R-7 derivative booster, and put the Soyuz on it. And honestly, the Soyuz of today has gone through a significant evolution since its conception in the 1960's.

I'm all for keeping ISS up there, but we don't need the shuttle to do so. The only reason you need to keep the shuttle is to build it, and that's nearly done. Put that extra 6 flight money into accelerating the new Orion stuff, and we'll get the new system earlier. Plus, if SpaceX gets their new Falcon 9 launch vehicle going soon, they've got a contract with NASA to fly 12 resupply flights. Part of their plan is a manned capsule for the same booster. I think that's where we need to go, in regards to station


operation.

OK. however, even if the Russians just go on like nothing happened, do you think we'd really just put our astronauts on-board ?? I'm thinking, probably not.

DOUBLE the NASA budget (half-penny a year per American!) and fly both the shuttle and develop a new vehicle.
 
EXACTLY> And tha'ts coming from someone obviously on the 'inside'

As for building the Pad in California (Vandenburg, on the coast, not Edwards, because of the booster drop issue..)
That would be a fine idea - in some ways - However there are 2 problems, and probably more, that I can think of:
A. The reason Space Centers are located all over the US is to spread around the tax money.. I know most people 'only' know of Johnson Space Center in Houston and KSC in Florida.. but there's Marshall, Stennis, Goddard.. and probably a bunch more I can't think of right now.
B. As previously said, launching from Vandenburg puts you into a polar orbit.. and with the International Space Station being the only 'reason' for the shuttle's existence these days.. they wouldn't be able to get into the ISS's orbital plane. Hindsight being what it is.... well, you know lol

And if we end the shuttle program with nothing coming up.. either we leave the ISS orbiting and practically useless after all this hard work, or we rely on the Russian Soyuz to take us up/down.. do we really want that? I think not. YES it's an amazingly reliable vehicle, but anything can happen - what if they had a catastrophic accident? They'd be just like the US and have a full investigation and major modifacation of the problem-area that would take a good 2 years.. again, leaving ISS as nothing but 'space junk' effectively.

I've heard a proposal is on the table that would add 6 shuttle flights to the 6 already planned.. only do 2/year until another vehicle comes long.. but that requires money - think we could all kick in a HALF PENNY a year and make that, and so much more, possible?



Thats actually incorrect. Think of all the sattelites and things that need to be reparied! Just a few missions ago was solely to fix the Hubble. Didn't even stop at the station as far as I know.

Otherwise- I can add more to the why its KSC and not some other facility later when i have more time.
 
OK. however, even if the Russians just go on like nothing happened, do you think we'd really just put our astronauts on-board ?? I'm thinking, probably not.

DOUBLE the NASA budget (half-penny a year per American!) and fly both the shuttle and develop a new vehicle.

Your not getting double the budget for NASA, no matter how you spin it. There are many, many more worthy causes than NASA for a budget increase, which have a much greater affect on many more people. Its a numbers game. Give money to the groups that benefit the most people, and get re-elected. Give it to a few places, and you're not getting re-elected.

Everyone is so quick to judge the Russians, and how "bad" their system is. Funny thing is, both the STS and Soyuz systems have the same reliability. And, if I had to pick which one to go on, I'd go with Soyuz all the way. Fundamentally, its a much simpler system, that carries much less dead mass into orbit. When something fails on launch in the Shuttle, its a crap shoot as to where your going, and if you make it back or not. Something goes wrong with the booster on the R-7 platform, you twist the abort handle, the capsule comes off, and we float back on parachutes. Something has to be said about the R-7 booster, and it being the most used booster ever. Do some research about it, and see how flexible it really is. We (NASA) needs something like that, not a niche system, like the STS. Sort of like the F-14 versus F/A-18. NASA needs a system that is a jack-of-all trades, in order to lower the costs.
 
I live over in Orlando Metro area basically and one thing i love about being here is watching a night launch go up, we have a perfect view of about 10 secs after lift off and when the SRBs separate its wonderful watching and makes you think how far we have come in aviation, may it be a simple RJ or the space shuttle its inspiring and once they stop the program its going to be something that I know for sure I will miss watching, although i have never seen a shuttle from the beach area, i hope to be there for the final launch along with several hundreds if not thousands.
 
Thats actually incorrect. Think of all the sattelites and things that need to be reparied! Just a few missions ago was solely to fix the Hubble. Didn't even stop at the station as far as I know.

Otherwise- I can add more to the why its KSC and not some other facility later when i have more time.


Well yes, if given an unlimited budget there's all kinds of things the shuttle can do - it's the most amazing space machine ever built.
But the REALITY is that their sole mission now is to the ISS.. That's the reality.

And to the other poster, I can think of no more IMPORTANT thing to budget than America's Space Program - all these other things we waste money on are exactly that - a WASTE.
 
And to the other poster, I can think of no more IMPORTANT thing to budget than America's Space Program - all these other things we waste money on are exactly that - a WASTE.

How is funding space exploration not a waste of money. What exactly have we gained from the manned space program since, say 1990? Other than we proved that we can build a big building up in space, nothing. If you want to put money in the space program, put it in unmanned equipment. More research has been done with probes than with people in space.
 
And to the other poster, I can think of no more IMPORTANT thing to budget than America's Space Program - all these other things we waste money on are exactly that - a WASTE.
I'd take a huge increase in education or defense (see that...defense...not offense. Protect our land/people first, then worry about Iraq and their people.) over NASA every day.

-mini
 
I'd take a huge increase in education or defense (see that...defense...not offense. Protect our land/people first, then worry about Iraq and their people.) over NASA every day.

-mini


Ok, OK...... and I guess NASA has nothing to do with EDUCATION OR DOD departments. ??????????????????????

Im officially DONE with this thread before I start kicking heads.... and I wont even check back to read, so if you need something... PM me instead.


.......OUT
 
Directly?

No. ...and I'm sure you won't be reading. :rolleyes:

-mini

Exactly. NASA's budget is fine where its at. Perhaps they should bet 10% more, but surely not double the money. Care to give us a list of what benefit's the general public has had from the entire STS program?
 
Back
Top