shuting down in FL???

Re: From AOPA

First off, no school is the second coming, FSA or otherwise. I'm glad you had a good experience. I'm sure I wouldn't have to look far in the aviation world to find someone who had a bad experience. Maybe someone who paid all the money to FSA and had to wait for months to get a standz class. Meantime, he was having to re-pay loans and pay rent. That was one of the instructors at my "Joe Blows" FBOs. The point is academies aren't better and FBOs aren't better. You can't generalize like that. You CAN compare individual schools, and that would be much better. There's a couple of FBOs out there that I wouldn't hesitate to put their studs up against FSA's.

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Get your run of the mill part 61, I did my PPL in 200 hours pilot and I will grab a 190 hour CIME FSA grad and we will do some spot landings, and instrument approaches and we will see who comes out on top. I know where I am putting my cash....


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No offense, but that makes no sense. A PPL against a CFI? Besides, if the guy took 200 hours to get his PPL, he's probably not interested in aviation as a career, therefore wouldn't have the desire to do as well. Now, if we want to compare apples to apples, I'll take an FBO CFI and an FSA CFI and give it a shot.

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BUT IT IS VERY RARE. FBO schools do not teach the way FSA does whether you want to believe it or not.

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I'll say it again. You can't generalize. How do you know EVERY FBO out there doesn't teach the same way FSA does? There are actually a lot of FSA trained instructors at FBOs instead of FSA. Are you saying those guys suddenly go retarded when they leave? There are, believe it or not, FBOs out there with career based training modeled on academy training.

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I was told when I applied for my job that they like hiring FSA and Riddle grads because they know we have a solid foundation with good training behind us.

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ASA or whomever needs to get out more. Especially if they think the flight training at Riddle is better than some of the other schools.....

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Take two resumes with identical degrees, hours, and ratings. One from joe blow me FBO and one from FSA or Riddle. Who do you think is getting the call first?

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Depends on who's making the calls. Some pilot recruiters don't LIKE Riddle grads b/c they're cocky. No offense, but it looks like the same might be said of FSA grads. You obviously have a chip on your shoulder when it comes to FBOs. Why? Did you have a bad experience with one FBO?

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I attended FSA for a hell of alot less than MOST pay for MOM and POP FBO training.

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Got facts on that? I'll agree that a lot of FBOs overcharge, that's why I don't go to those. However, I'll be done with my ratings and my degree owing less than $30K. If you got done at FSA for less than average, that means you probably studied hard and paid attention. Has nothing to do with the school, but the work ethic of the student. Don't sell the students short based on the school's curriculum.

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Oh yeah, you know everything and will probably say Joe blows right?

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Believe it or not, I've seen people get hired at airlines that trained at FBOs. A lot of them are on this board, too. If you go into an interview with a superior attitude like that, you'll probably be getting a letter in the mail instead of a phone call, no matter what flight school you went to. I know at one specific regional they really don't care where you go your ratings, they focus on attitude and personality. So, in this case if the FSA guy comes off as cocky and the "Joe Blow" FBO guy comes off as friendly, guess who's getting the call.


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I think it was at Joes FBO SIMPLY because you are so protective of Joe and so against some of the schools that actually have money behind them to employ some of the best Ex-Military and Airline Pilots to teach, mentor, and guide new pilots.

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Personally, I went the FBO route, and I don't regret it. You're trying to tell me I might as well pack up and go home since my money was wasted. I guess I should have gone to FSA if I wanted to fly for the airlines. At least, that's what it sounds like. I think FSA is a good school, and it works for a lot of people. I also happen to think that it's overpriced, same with Pan Am and even ATP now. I've gotten nothing against academies. They work for a lot of people, especially when you need to get done quickly. What I don't like is people who think their school is the best, and the only way they can show it is by running down every other school that comes up. To me, that shows some serious inadequacies in the training. Now, if you can confidentally say "My school is better and here's why...." then that's cool. There might even be some facts I agree with in there. But to come out and rant about "Joe Blow FBOs" and "Pan Scam" and "Scary Ben" does nothing but take away.

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since you have SOOOOOO much time to constantly get into spiffs with people on this site, take some of that free time of yours and head on down to FSA and go HAND fly some approaches in the Seminole with some of the students.

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Well, I know this was directed at Don, but I'll bite. If you're buying, I'll go one better. SINGLE engine approaches, hand flown in the Seneca. Oh, but I learned those at an FBO.....
 
Re: From AOPA

[ QUOTE ]
Kell,
That was a good post, seriously.

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That's all you have to say......

I'll tell a little advice from my little experience. You know as much as I like to be right, I also like being wrong. I know that sounds weird, but if someone can prove me wrong, you bet your butt that I'll remember that forever.

That is one thing about this profession, you never stop learning and I love that.
 
Re: From AOPA

[ QUOTE ]
That's all you have to say......

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He wasn't replying to me, I was telling him he argued that well, with solid evidence...


Why do you single me out for giving him a compliment? Every post I make on here, you're right there to make some comment about it...?
 
Re: From AOPA

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That's all you have to say......

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He wasn't replying to me, I was telling him he argued that well, with solid evidence...


Why do you single me out for giving him a compliment? Every post I make on here, you're right there to make some comment about it...?

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Because you are refusing to comment on everything said by multiple posters.

What you and kailuaboy said was wrong, and stupid. kailuaboy's first comment was plain mean to whomever he directed it towards. And then you decided to make a fool of yourself with your personal attack on me when YOU were wrong. I know I'd feel stupid if I did that...


Disclaimer:

Don't confuse the use of stupid either. I'm not calling you, or kailuaboy, or anyone else stupd, but what both you said was "stupid" in my book.
 
Re: From AOPA

[ QUOTE ]
FBO schools do not teach the way FSA does whether you want to believe it or not.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well I went to Riddle for awhile and since you say they are similar, here's my take.

At Riddle my instructors were guys a little older than me who were products of Riddle themselves, and who were probably taught by the same. A common word used around there is "inbreeding", meaning that the instructor pool is so independent of the outside world that many bad habits and particularly bad attitudes (the most prominent one being the cockyness) are passed on from one generation to the next. They managed to suck all the fun out of flying and I actually began to hate driving to the flight line.

My instructor now flew fighters in the guard, is currently a citation captain for a corporate/charter company, and has been instructing quite a bit longer than I've been alive. He also owns and operates a 'mom & pop' FBO that specializes in instrument, multi-engine, and tailwheel training. I now feel like every minute of my training is valuable as well as a lot of fun.

Which one sounds better to you?
 
Re: From AOPA

[ QUOTE ]
Disclaimer:

Don't confuse the use of stupid either. I'm not calling you, or kailuaboy, or anyone else stupd, but what both you said was "stupid" in my book.

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What the hell is this? "Im not calling you or kailuaboy stupid".... when you wrote this....

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Because he's stupid (refering to me, kboy) and that's the only answer he could come up with.

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Now, let me ask a "simple" question here.... (AOL Keyword: SIMPLE): At FSA, how long does it take to get a Private single guy (with zero flight time) done? (I'm just curious)
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This forum kicks @ss.
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Just FYI. When I talk to prospect students about Aviator, I tell them that if they choose another flight school in our area; Flight Safety is where they wanna go.
 
Re: From AOPA

PanAm just RAPES you!!!

Funny thing: I was on my was to the airport today, heading south on US1 and noticed two aircraft flying pretty low. Both were PanAm. One was entering the traffic pattern from Harbor Branch (I believe right downwind for 32), and the other one just departed, going North East. They had to of been 50 feet apart when they cris-crossed.....

Going 65, I didnt have enough time to get my camera out and take a picture. Wish I noticed it earlier and had more time.

just thought ide share that, cause, we all agree on one thing right?
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PanAm students are dangerous!!
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Re: From AOPA

[ QUOTE ]
PanAm just RAPES you!!!

Funny thing: I was on my was to the airport today, heading south on US1 and noticed two aircraft flying pretty low. Both were PanAm. One was entering the traffic pattern from Harbor Branch (I believe right downwind for 32), and the other one just departed, going North East. They had to of been 50 feet apart when they cris-crossed.....

Going 65, I didnt have enough time to get my camera out and take a picture. Wish I noticed it earlier and had more time.

just thought ide share that, cause, we all agree on one thing right?
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PanAm students are dangerous!!
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Since you have ZERO credibility, I am just going leave it alone.
 
Re: From AOPA

Notice how they both dodged the question.

About what I said earlier, that is why in my next post I said I meant what you said was stupid. ok?
 
Re: From AOPA

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Since you have ZERO credibility, I am just going leave it alone.

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why do you say that? cause i have less posts than you?
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Re: From AOPA

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Going 65, I didnt have enough time to get my camera out and take a picture. Wish I noticed it earlier and had more time.

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Going 65 in a car, I generally have a hard time telling distances between moving aircraft and their altitudes. You sure they were "pretty low" and "50 feet apart when they criss-crossed?" When they criss-crossed, were they at different altitudes? You know from the ground, it looks like two planes separated by 500 feet are gonna hit.....
 
Re: From AOPA

yeah, i know what you mean. I said "they had to of been 50 feet". I never said "they were 50 feet apart".

They did look very close. The lowest one, (ide say) had to of been at 1000 feet (TPA).

Im sure they were at different altitudes cause they went right over me.
 
Re: From AOPA

< I also happen to know a few pilot recruiters for 2 regionals and they both said when asked that yes....they do like seeing Flight Safety and Riddle on the resumes.>

I think what CLR4ILS is trying to say is not that there's a halo around FSI that makes it looks better, say like having a degree from Harvard, but rather the pilots they interview from FSI are generally well trained and do well in the sim. It's a known quantity, you generally know what you’re going to get with a FlightSafety trained pilot, a good pilot. Where as you can also be a good pilot coming out of an FBO, it's a rather unknown quantity, they may be good and they may not be. I don't know the statisistics, so I won't go there but I'm willing to guess that a higher percentage of FSI trained pilots will pass their airline interview than a part 61 trained pilot due to FSI's generally better, more career orientated training.

<The airlines don't care where you train>

Yeah I'd agree that the majors don't care because you've probably already proven yourself by flying as a Captain for a regional airline. Again the regionals probably don't care either, if your a good pilot your a good pilot no matter where you trained. But going back to the original statement, they know that they're more likely to get a good pilot from someone with FSI training. And therefore may be more likely to invite them for an interview with the belief they're more likely to be successful in the interview. Like I said before, it's a known quantity.

We now resume our regular programing
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Re: From AOPA

My experience with airline interviews is that everyone is "equal" when they walk in the door. Your background, hours, ratings, experience, maybe a personal recommendation, and yes, even what flight school you went to, help you get the interview. But when you're all in that waiting room together, doesn't matter if you have 500 hours or 2000, military, academy, or whatever, you all earned the right to be there.

The academy you went to might help you get the interview but how you come across during the interveiw gets you the job, not where you went to school or how you trained.

A small school guy might (or might not) need more experience to get the interview compared to an academy guy, but that's a good thing in my book. The trade off is the small school guy spends a lot less money.

You certainly don't need "career oriented flight training", or have to wear a silly uniform in your 172, to become a good candidate for an airline career.
 
Re: From AOPA

I agree, but isn't getting the interview the hardest part? I assume they don't invite you for an interview unless they think there's a good chance you'll be successful.

Either way I set out to get the best flight training money can buy and I believe that's what I got. Sure having a new, flawlessly maintained and always available fleet of aircraft isn't necessary, but it's sure nice to have. Nor is getting your instrument rating in a twin or getting upset recovery training in a fully aerobatic aircraft, but I believe it was money well spent. You get what you pay for and why go cheap on your flight training when airline pilots make well above average incomes. If you made it to the airlines by going the FBO route, then good for you, but in the end I guess it's a matter of personal perference.
 
Re: From AOPA

[ QUOTE ]
I agree, but isn't getting the interview the hardest part? I assume they don't invite you for an interview unless they think there's a good chance you'll be successful.

[/ QUOTE ]I don't think so... as long as you have the minimums they require and are going by the book to put yourself in position to interview (UPAS or what not), then I don't see why getting an interview would be so difficult. I think getting thru the interview and getting the job is much harder than obtaining the interview itself.
 
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