Seggy on Emirates!

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Seggy said:
Stop lecturing. Your missing the point about how others with a lot more experience than me are of the same opinion as mine with airlines such as Emirates. These are people I usually don't agree with as well. Do you get that point?
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Stop giving into the assertion that you lack experience. That's BS. You were an MEC Chairman and national officer. You have more experience in this subject matter than most guys who who are approaching retirement age. You should be the one lecturing, not some guy who has never lobbied on the Hill.
 
Seggy said:
Stop lecturing.

Your missing the point about how others with a lot more experience than me are of the same opinion as mine with airlines such as Emirates. These are people I usually don't agree with as well.

Do you get that point?
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Stop lecturing? I'm telling you what I observe with your own behavior in bashing people with more experience, regardless of whether you agree with them or not.. It isn't the best technique. On the flip side, neither is you being bashed for being younger industry-wise with lesser overall experience.

That said, I do get your point. And I don't discount it at all. I have no reason to. I don't know all the ins and outs of the subject from both sides, my concern is mainly that the convo stays civil. That's all. What I see is interesting info presented from both sides, with different viewpoints coming from those different experiences, yours included. Good info all around. That said, again, I hope the playing field can get leveled, then the winners/losers at least doing so by their own hand and without any outside holdback or help.

Seggy said:
Very true.

I guess I had to explain it to the lecturers on here who think experience is based on age.
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Experience isn't based on age, it's based on doing. Like my F-105 vet example. He just happens to be older in actual age; but that's moot. His overall experience is a far wider net than mine is, even though I have different ones and more pointed experiences here and there.

Salty is relative, in a lot of ways.
 
MikeD said:
Stop lecturing? I'm telling you what I observe with your own behavior in bashing people with more experience, regardless of whether you agree with them or not.. It isn't the best technique. On the flip side, neither is you being bashed for being younger industry-wise with lesser overall experience.
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What I observe is folks are insecure that one who is younger than they are has more experience. That's when the lectures start.

They also start if I dare break decorum in here vehemently defending my position against folks who don't see the threats I do. Threats that can destroy the way of life for many members on here.
 
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Seggy said:
Guess who paid for that audit?
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Doesn't matter who paid for it. It was an independent firm. Or maybe Emirates tipped them extra to buy it in their favor. :rolleyes: Conspiracy theory. If this really matters to you, why don't you lobby and get ALPA to either run one themselves or get a third-party of their choosing to run Emirates' audit?

ATN_Pilot said:
To whom are you talking?
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You have me on block but I know you are reading my posts. One option is if you choose to by clicking "show post" anyway. The other option - involuntary - is when someone quotes my post when they reply. So when Seggy quotes me, you see it. So why play a dumb blonde here? You know exactly what I wrote and who Seggy is talking to.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Stop giving into the assertion that you lack experience. That's BS. You were an MEC Chairman and national officer. You have more experience in this subject matter than most guys who who are approaching retirement age. You should be the one lecturing, not some guy who has never lobbied on the Hill.
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MEC Chairman of a 250 pilot Colgan isn't exactly a lot of street cred.

To be a POTUS one needs to be at least 35. Ever wonder why? If only ALPA had such a rule for their national EVPs.....
 
Seggy said:
What I observe is folks are insecure that one who is younger than they are has more experience. That's when the lectures start.
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Humility is an important thing. Perspective is also. Your experiences may be different than others here, and likely is in many ways. And that's fine and valuable. But too, it may not necessarily be insecurity if someone who was out flying the line when you were getting your PPL, may not want to be lectured to. Tact and salesmanship work well here. Really in both directions too.

They also start if I dare break decorum in here vehemently defending my position against folks who don't see the threats I do. Threats that can destroy the way of life for many members on here.
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Agreed on the opinion and position, as yours is no more or less important than another's here. They're just different and come from different backgrounds and experiences, as well as different needs. Conversation is the spice of life, or is supposed to be.
 
Seggy said:
Then stay out of it. This isn't a "touchy feely, let's all get along and have beers" situation. I feel this issue is pivotal to the future of my career. I have zero patience for those that want to lecture me on how I am wrong with my approach or thoughts on this subject.
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Nope, sorry I will not stay out of it. Doug has to us here to try and keep things in order. If you cannot handle or understand that then that is your issue.

What you don't know is that people I have zero common ground with I agree wholeheartedly in their approach to these carriers. ALPA has done a masterful job with this threat so far.

Just because I only worked for a US airline does that mean I'm wrong in my opinion. That is ridiculous.
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Not once did I say you were wrong. And just because someone else does something different than you doesn't make them wrong either. From what you continue to post, that doesn't seem to be the case. And that has absolutely nothing to do with the subject. It seems to be if they don't agree with you they are indeed wrong.

I firmly believe these Middle East carriers are state owned enterprises that are creating an uneven playing field. @typhoonpilot has even agreed with me that some are. Of course he doesn't think his former airline is, I disagree with that.
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That's great, I doubt anyone has problem with you having a disagreement. Hell, you think the Giants are great, I think they suck !!

Folks are being naive if they firmly believe these airlines are operating the same way US Carriers are.

As I said, I don't need a lecture or colloquialism.
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I am not lecturing you one bit, it was a cheesy saying that I recall from 35 years ago. The fact that you saw it as a lecture tells me you missed the point.

I don't have to be an airline pilot or union rep to make the observations I have made. People either believe in your way or they are wrong and it doesn't have to be this subject. Plain and simple.

It's all in the delivery.
 
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I agree with points on both sides of the argument. Emirates is not a state run carrier. Emirates is a private run Low Cost Carrier under the veil of a luxury carrier. Their First and Business class is nice but they cram more seats in coach than any other Legacy carrier in the world. The good service and seat entertainment is designed to distract from the misery. By operating in the very low cost business environment of Dubai which also has geographic advantage for an international airline hub, Emirates costs are reduced further. State subsidies can be argued for Qatar or Ethiad. Not so much for Emirates. Might as well throw Turkish in that convo then as they are catching up to Emirates at a furious pace.

Now on the other hand, I support ALPA 100% fighting the Middle East Carriers if they aim to start a "flag of convenience" cycle by operating outside of the Dubai hub. We don't want the airline industry to mimic the cruise ship industry.
 
Seggy said:
What I observe is folks are insecure that one who is younger than they are has more experience. That's when the lectures start.
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Bingo!

MikeD said:
Humility is an important thing. Perspective is also. Your experiences may be different than others here, and likely is in many ways. And that's fine and valuable. But too, it may not necessarily be insecurity if someone who was out flying the line when you were getting your PPL, may not want to be lectured to.
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Then said person needs to grow up and realize that his years flying airplanes have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
 
ComplexHiAv8r said:
Sometimes we know better. That experience thing. 8)
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Age does not = experience, unless you're just talking about experience in breathing. Experience is issue-specific. I'm a lot older than a first year med school student, but he knows a hell of a lot more about anatomy than I do, and I would be an idiot to engage in a debate with him about such subjects. Stick to what you know and learn from other people who have experience that you do not, no matter how old you are.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Age does not = experience, unless you're just talking about experience in breathing. Experience is issue-specific. I'm a lot older than a first year med school student, but he knows a hell of a lot more about anatomy than I do, and I would be an idiot to engage in a debate with him about such subjects. Stick to what you know and learn from other people who have experience that you do not, no matter how old you are.
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I wasn't talking age. Although age does sometimes add to experience as we figure out years later we should of know better and use that experience to try and help others not make the same mistakes.
 
As for Seggy and ATN's comments on experience, keep in mind that these union guys were often on full time flying buy-out and flew very little. Experience in union business, sure, but when it comes to line flying their time was very limited. Not always the case but quite a few times guys like these would get disconnected from line flying.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
As for Seggy and ATN's comments on experience, keep in mind that these union guys were often on full time flying buy-out and flew very little. Experience in union business, sure, but when it comes to line flying their time was very limited. Not always the case but quite a few times guys like these would get disconnected from line flying.
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Well I can't speak for @ATN_Pilot but I can for @Seggy. He was on full time buy off for two months. Not concurrent I might add. Since you are well versed in what those two do/did I'll help add some footnotes. When @Seggy was on full time buy we had just crashed an airplane. You reference that crash quite a bit so you know what I'm talking about. The other time came when it was announced we would be merging with your former carrier and Mesaba. The other months he had to fly at least 25 hours just to make guarantee. Now I know it might be hard for you to understand but not everyone doing Union work is full time buy off. I know I sure am not and most likely never will be. Then again you think I'm a lazy Union guy because I only fly about 35-50 hours a month on average.

Give it a rest, and channel your hatred of unions towards something productive.
 
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