Rumor mill: Future of Expressjet?

Several on this site have done it with wonderful success. I have a friend that left Endeavor last fall for Compass that will be upgrading late fall. This person's former coworkers at their seniority are not only still FOs but still on reserve.

No doubt. But I personally would never start over at first year pay. I would absolutely go back to charter, corporate, or even engineering before starting over at another regional. I had one run of "paying dues" at a regional in me.

Then again, the fact that I've done a lot of stuff other than the regionals probably plays a part in my attitude towards it too. Maybe if I just flight instructed for a year or two before going to a regional I'd feel different.
 
Him and about 100 others. It'll only get faster too now! As @amorris311 has stated were close to a sub 2 year upgrade. 20 more people and we're into July 2013 hires.

Yeah, but say I bail and head over there to work for $24/hr...then they finish their 20 deliveries right about the time I'm ready to upgrade a few years in...then its right back to stagnationville.

I know that movement everywhere is supposed to increase, but I still think chasing an upgrade is a crappy idea. If you're like @jtrain609 and happen to make the move before it happens, that's fantastic. But I think leaving one company because the upgrade at the next one is faster is just setting yourself up for frustration.
 
Yeah, but say I bail and head over there to work for $24/hr...then they finish their 20 deliveries right about the time I'm ready to upgrade a few years in...then its right back to stagnationville.

I know that movement everywhere is supposed to increase, but I still think chasing an upgrade is a crappy idea. If you're like @jtrain609 and happen to make the move before it happens, that's fantastic. But I think leaving one company because the upgrade at the next one is faster is just setting yourself up for frustration.
Hey man I hear you, I am just trying to help people with info. What you choose to do with it is your choice. Isn't Expressjet already at stagntionville though? While being in the right seat?
 
Hey man I hear you, I am just trying to help people with info. What you choose to do with it is your choice. Isn't Expressjet already at stagntionville though? While being in the right seat?

Yeah, but it's stagnantville with money and whatever schedule I want...for now.

Whether that lasts, who knows. But any move...or not moving is a gamble. I'm sticking with what I know
 
Wouldn't be bad but I am not willing to do first year pay for a third time in my career unless the airline is an LCC or better.


$23k just gets old.
This.

I've already done my regional-to-regional shuffle. I have no interest in doing another one. Because I get the distinct impression that, if I were to cut and run for the Shiny Jets of Compass, the upgrading would stop right about the time it was my turn.

The time to make such moves is BEFORE the big announcement.
 
ross9238 said:
With my luck, it will happen exactly like Emu said. Might as well ride this a little longer holding the schedule I want and keep updating the apps & network more.

Whatever will happen, regardless of what we think will happen or when it will happen.

That said, I am not as doom and gloom as others. Just keep working hard and doing what's right for our passengers.
 
Yeah, I'm like 11 numbers from upgrade and get a schedule that I pick (usually) and make enough to do what I like to do. So I'll either get the upgrade soon enough or be the first class in ASA's history never to upgrade. Either way, it would be one less thing to explain on an interview one day as to why an 8 year FO would leave to join the bottom of another regional.
 
Whatever will happen, regardless of what we think will happen or when it will happen.

That said, I am not as doom and gloom as others. Just keep working hard and doing what's right for our passengers.

This.

I wasn't around for last round if negotiations. But I'm told that these are similar to the last ones. Same rumors, same performance, same morale.

Congrats btw.
 
I think a lot of us are forgetting the 1000's that the majors are going to be loosing in the next few years. I only know about the Captains I fly with, but I'd say about 30% of them are not looking at moving to a major. They have a schedule they like, good enough pay, and not enough years left to get that QoL back at a major. With the guys that aren't going to leave the regionals, the number of guys at the regionals, and the numbers leaving the majors...why jump to another regional right now? It really doesn't look like more than another 5 years and most of us will be hired. Sure the guys that got hired 7 years ago were under the same 5 year plan, but there was a financial crisis, the 60 changing to 65 rule, and no hiring anywhere. Another financial crisis would slow things down if it happened now but unless they bump the age 65 rule up there are a lot of guys to be FORCED out. It doesn't include those that have had enough and leave on their own. Pulling numbers for the next 5 years at the majors you've got:
Delta 1216
United 2016
American 820
USAir 1046
Alaska 203
UPS 215
FedEx 756

Thats 6272 guys forced out through 2018, figure actual numbers leaving those 7 would probably be closer to 7000, and then factor in Southwest, Alliegient, Spirit, Virgin, Frontier, other cargo, etc and you are probably looking at 8000+ guys leaving in the next 5 years, and that is just the beginning. After 2018 the guys leaving each year really ramps up. Just adding 2 more years going to 2020 and there is an additional ~4500. Then don't forget that the majors are also trying to grow and expand for increasing amount of travel.

How many pilots are at the regionals? About 20,000, but again not all of them want to leave or go to majors.
XJT 4630
Skywest 3300
Republic 3000
Envoy 2650
Endeavor 1900
Compass 440
PSA 650
AirWisc 860
Mesa 850
Commutair 220
Horizon 580
TransStates 240
GoJet 510

So what does all of this mean...well wherever you are right now there is a good chance the junior captains will start getting pulled into the majors pretty soon, upgrades will probably start increasing everywhere and the chances of you still being at the regional in 5-7 years are looking very slim right now. XJT is looking at 7 year upgrades because they didn't hire for the previous 5 years. That upgrade will shorten considerably over the next year. The entire current regional pilot staffing will be retired and absorbed in 8 years.

What about downsizing and getting rid of the 50's? Somebody has to do the flying. Right now XJT is doing a lot of Endeavor flying with 200's out of DTW. Why? Because Endeavor can't staff it...will the 50's go away, absolutely, and the majors/regionals will try to offset some of this shortage with the larger aircraft running fewer trips. It will slow down the effects, but it doesn't stop the fact that guys are leaving from the top. Add to all of this the requirement to have an ATP to fly at a carrier, the cost to acquire an ATP, and the lack of people enthused enough to go through is process for the lackluster career and it really is a perfect storm the industry has created for itself. With the limited number of people joining the industry the only place the regionals will really find adequate staffing is by pulling from other regionals. For the majors to force regional pilots to go to a different regional or loose your job seems like it is far too risky in the current environment of growth, mass retirement, and limited pool to hire from.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
This. I wasn't around for last round if negotiations. But I'm told that these are similar to the last ones. Same rumors, same performance, same morale. Congrats btw.

Thanks. Not over with yet. Online voting now open to fill the full position until 2/16.
 
So what does all of this mean...well wherever you are right now there is a good chance the junior captains will start getting pulled into the majors pretty soon, upgrades will probably start increasing everywhere and the chances of you still being at the regional in 5-7 years are looking very slim right now.

Because XJT won't be around in 5-7 years...cha ching.

I'm not sure I would be completely optimistic and say that upgrades will drop at XJT for example. If anything, I am of the belief that we will be the next Endeavor. Hiring is stopping for the shrinkage. We'll be seeing increased attrition especially come fall from the top and middle. With no hiring for the time being, we'll be seeing a mass exodus from the bottom of the list with people going to Compass, SkyWest, PSA, and Mesa. Planning will panic and they'll start hiring again. Recruitment will say, hey we have tons of movement and if you come here, upgrade will be 1 year! So then we'll be back at square one right with Endeavor. Hiring to put butts in the right seat and stagnation in the left seat. We'll keep going on that merry-go-round until we bottom out at whatever fleet level we end up with. I fear that could be 0 at some point.
 
Because XJT won't be around in 5-7 years...cha ching.

I'm not sure I would be completely optimistic and say that upgrades will drop at XJT for example. If anything, I am of the belief that we will be the next Endeavor. Hiring is stopping for the shrinkage. We'll be seeing increased attrition especially come fall from the top and middle. With no hiring for the time being, we'll be seeing a mass exodus from the bottom of the list with people going to Compass, SkyWest, PSA, and Mesa. Planning will panic and they'll start hiring again. Recruitment will say, hey we have tons of movement and if you come here, upgrade will be 1 year! So then we'll be back at square one right with Endeavor. Hiring to put butts in the right seat and stagnation in the left seat. We'll keep going on that merry-go-round until we bottom out at whatever fleet level we end up with. I fear that could be 0 at some point.

I could definitely see XJT shrinking, but I don't see it being a problem for people currently employed...I guess thats what I was getting at. Why jump to the bottom of another regional when you can wait out a few more years where you are at? I'd expect upgrades to not be needed as quick as filling the right seat, but I don't see that as a problem either. Since the beginning of the year we've already lost 304 pilots, 130 of them to the majors. On the ASA side we've lost 101, but the total list has only shrunk by 30 so far. As you mention come fall there are going to be several more leaving as they get their class dates from the majors. Out of those 304 that left 166 were FO's. Basically we will shrink, but upgrades will still happen because plenty of the left seat is leaving and they are leaving fast enough that retiring aircraft wont keep up with it, and even if it still takes current hires 5 years to upgrade (grossly optimistic) who cares if they can get picked up at a major without ever sitting in the left seat? I'd much rather a major seniority number than PIC CR2 time...and it all shows pretty clear in the numbers that this is not an unrealistic expectation. I think all of us are in a pretty great position, we all just need to stick together and realize we are worth something.
 
XJT is shedding 56 aircraft (may extend the leases on some of those) by the end of 2014 and more in 2015 and on (I hear 108 in 12 months) - I think that'll put a damper on upgrade times.
 
Here's what I don't get. If your at StagnationNation Air why would you not go to some airline that is pretty much guaranteeing you will be a Captain in a year. I understand everyone feels like everyone will be ok and the majors will take care of us all PIC time or not BUT the argument of getting the schedule you want is moot because you'll be very senior quickly as an FO, 1 year of sacrificing probationary pay again then either upgrade or keep your cush FO schedule. Sitting as a Captain is a lot better than an FO if you all of a sudden realize those major jobs aren't as easy to obtain as people make it seem.
 
While PIC time is great, there have been plenty of FO's leaving to the majors who were able to network properly. For some of us, our luck is such that the airline that is doing the upgrading will stop as soon it is our turn to be the one for the upgrade. Then what? Also, since we are talking about Compass with the quickest upgrade, it is not only about the probationary pay but also the work rules associated with it. For someone who is single, this might not be a bad move but if you have a family to support, well having to pay for hotels during training, the bond, etc. is not worth it (my opinion).
 
Here's what I don't get. If your at StagnationNation Air why would you not go to some airline that is pretty much guaranteeing you will be a Captain in a year. I understand everyone feels like everyone will be ok and the majors will take care of us all PIC time or not BUT the argument of getting the schedule you want is moot because you'll be very senior quickly as an FO, 1 year of sacrificing probationary pay again then either upgrade or keep your cush FO schedule. Sitting as a Captain is a lot better than an FO if you all of a sudden realize those major jobs aren't as easy to obtain as people make it seem.

Not arguing, the future absolutely does look amazingly bright for you guys but don't forget, nothing is a guarantee in this industry. There's a multitude of things, however very unlikely, that could happen that would stagnate Compass.
 
Not arguing, the future absolutely does look amazingly bright for you guys but don't forget, nothing is a guarantee in this industry. There's a multitude of things, however very unlikely, that could happen that would stagnate Compass.

Absolutely. The quick upgrade is for folks on property. Right place, right time. They weren't necessarily chasing the upgrade as it stands today. But for the guy/girl filling out an app right now? Who the heck knows what will happen by the time they get a year or so in on flying the line.
 
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