Retaining Pilots

av8tr1 said:
That's such a bizarre way of handling pay. Near as I can tell only the aviation industry is like that. Every salary in the corporate world is confidential and raises are usually based on merit. It's certainly not a perfect system but it allows for individual contributors to benefit greatly. And encourages employees to work harder than just the bare minimum. If everyone just did the minimums for the job we would never have advanced as a species.

Serious question, What is it that encourages a pilot to go the extra mile for passengers or employees? I've heard the stories of the Captain who bought pizza for all the stranded passengers and the crews who go out of their way to rescue a lost stuffed animal 6 states away for a kid. What is it that drives these airline employees to do this?
Click to expand...

Humanity. People don't only do good things because they are rewarded for it. Rewards ARE a strong motivation, but many people want to be good at their jobs and at life, and will go the extra mile for that alone.
 
NickH said:
Humanity. People don't only do good things because they are rewarded for it. Rewards ARE a strong motivation, but many people want to be good at their jobs and at life, and will go the extra mile for that alone.
Click to expand...

This


Working with people whose only motivation to do more than the minimum is money; is.....exhausting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
ClarkGriswold said:
This will be entertaining to watch. There are sayings in aviation that are normally pretty true and shouldn't be ignored. Like "never date a flight attendant" and "if you want to be a millionaire start an airline when you're a billionaire" or something along those lines. Good luck.
Click to expand...
Ah (bleep).

Roger Roger said:
Also I'm quitting this thread, its depressingly like my day job.
Click to expand...
Take this job, and shove it? ;)
 
av8tr1 said:
Serious question, What is it that encourages an employee to go the extra mile for passengers or employees? I've heard the stories of the Captain who bought pizza for all the stranded passengers and the crews who go out of their way to rescue a lost stuffed animal 6 states away for a kid. What is it that drives these airline employees to do this?
Click to expand...

Pride and sense of accountability/responsibility.

Belief that they are a part of something good that benefits the people and communities they care about. That the brand experience of their customer matters, and that they are responsible for that brand experience. That they - the employee - matter.

Pride.
 
av8tr1 said:
Serious question, What is it that encourages a pilot to go the extra mile for passengers or employees?
Click to expand...

It seems as if some people will only do the right thing if it generates likes and shares on social media.

The rest of us do it because we're human beings and we work in the service industry.



Sent from my Startac using Tapatalk.
 
av8tr1 said:
Serious question, What is it that encourages a pilot to go the extra mile for passengers or employees? I've heard the stories of the Captain who bought pizza for all the stranded passengers and the crews who go out of their way to rescue a lost stuffed animal 6 states away for a kid. What is it that drives these airline employees to do this?
Click to expand...
Working for a company that doesn't encourage employee one-upmanship and leave their employees trying to figure out the magic sauce of brown nosing, bending the rules to get the job done while maintaining a fascia of compliance, and working above and beyond their job description that will get them that next raise.
CFI A&P said:
It seems as if some people will only do the right thing if it generates likes and shares on social media.

The rest of us do it because we're human beings and we work in the service industry.



Sent from my Startac using Tapatalk.
Click to expand...
I've gone above and beyond a lot of times for our customers and never once had in mind "boy maybe this will get me a big fat bonus". I did it because I try to do a good job.
 
killbilly said:
Pride and sense of accountability/responsibility.

Belief that they are a part of something good that benefits the people and communities they care about. That the brand experience of their customer matters, and that they are responsible for that brand experience. That they - the employee - matter.

Pride.
Click to expand...
It's always interesting to me when I see someone being praised for doing something that is in their job description.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
It's always interesting to me when I see someone being praised for doing something that is in their job description.
Click to expand...

Not sure if you're being sarcastic? We were talking about going the extra mile, which, by implication, is above and beyond the job description.

I was saying that pride in what you're doing makes you go beyond the minimum. Did I miss the mark?
 
Roger Roger said:
Working for a company that doesn't encourage employee one-upmanship and leave their employees trying to figure out the magic sauce of brown nosing, bending the rules to get the job done while maintaining a fascia of compliance, and working above and beyond their job description that will get them that next raise.

I've gone above and beyond a lot of times for our customers and never once had in mind "boy maybe this will get me a big fat bonus". I did it because I try to do a good job.
Click to expand...

I think it is also important that we have a serious discussion of what "a good job" entails in aviation - when I was younger I thought a "good job" meant getting the pax to their destination on time or getting all the freight or getting in, then I got older and realized that the definition of a "good job" was a lot more nuanced.
 
I'll offer a few suggestions:

- A realistic number of hard days off (I'd suggest a minimum of 12, preferravly 14) that are known at least a month beforehand. Also, make it easy to adjust schedules. I had one job that was 8 on/6 off, but if you could find someone on the opposite schedule that was willing to trade with you, you both could work 15 on/13 off. This would allow you to get specific days off, or a long time off for a vacation, or whatever, but it made absolutely zero difference to the company.
- Bonuses: This is a bit of a gimmick, but pay an average salary and budget in an additional 10% (or whatever) for management discretion bonuses. When you have a particularly busy week, or someone gets a rave review from a customer, pay it out as a as a recognition bonus. This has the effect of paying them higher than average on the whole, but also does so in a way that recognizes their importance to the team and provides the sense of meaning something to both the employee and the company. Do this for both teams and individuals. When I worked the line, I had a boss that did this and it made a huge difference. Getting paid an average salary and having my boss shake my hand and give me a $100 note as a "thank you for doing a great job" after a particularly busy day meant more than getting paid the same via an above average pay rate.
- Pay 100% of the premiums for the lowest cost healthcare plan (HDHP or the like), and charge the difference for more expensive plans. This is such a rarity in not only aviation, but any industry. Even if you paid them a lower salary to offset the cost, the simple novelty of it will make them think twice about leaving.
 
Last edited:
hook_dupin said:
Follow-on question: for an ATP-holder, what salary would keep you at a 135?
Click to expand...

Great Work Rules
Great Bennies
Great QOL
Great MGMT
Great Crew
Solid Company Future with regards to keep and operating the aircraft
175K+

Most 135/91 outfits cannot afford to come even close to that or job security and retirement that the majors can offer.
 
ppragman said:
I think it is also important that we have a serious discussion of what "a good job" entails in aviation - when I was younger I thought a "good job" meant getting the pax to their destination on time or getting all the freight or getting in, then I got older and realized that the definition of a "good job" was a lot more nuanced.
Click to expand...

A pat on the back from your fellow flight crew for not doing something stupid means alot more than a pat on the back from management for "getting the job done." That doesn't mean that you stayed on the ground, and they don't have to be mutually exclusive circumstances. But burning an extra half hour's worth of gas to go around a convective cluster rather than trying to work your way between the cells? Sure. And if you're at the right operator, you won't hear a peep from management for doing something like that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
av8tr1 said:
What is it that drives these airline employees to do this?
Click to expand...

Being happy, engaged, and yes, well compensated. This isn't theory, I see it every day. It's certainly not all compensation, but compensation plays a role. I would characterize the general drift as being "respected and appreciated", though. A guy (or gal) who feels as though their efforts are appreciated and respected will find it in themselves to work harder in order to continue to be appreciated and respected (in addition, one supposes and hopes, to wanting to do a good job for the sake of personal pride, etc). But if you want to turn someone in to a muttering malcontent who does, as you phrase it, "the bare minimum", there's no better way than to promote or pay more to people whose "stats" (time in service, hours, types, etc) are lower, but who shake hands the right way. It's worth remembering that "the bare minimum", in our chosen profession, isn't just showing up at the office...it's operating a complex piece of machinery safely and in a timely manner and getting the people where they're going without getting them dead. Doing "the bare minimum" is what we are paid to do. Everything else is gravy.
 
Last edited:
Boris Badenov said:
Being happy, engaged, and yes, well compensated. This isn't theory, I see it every day. It's certainly not all compensation, but compensation plays a roll. I would characterize the general drift as being "respected and appreciated", though. A guy (or gal) who feels as though their efforts are appreciated and respected will find it in themselves to work harder in order to continue to be appreciated and respected (in addition, one supposes and hopes, to wanting to do a good job for the sake of personal pride, etc). But if you want to turn someone in to a muttering malcontent who does, as you phrase it, "the bare minimum", there's no better way than to promote or pay more to people whose "stats" (time in service, hours, types, etc) are lower, but who shake hands the right way. It's worth remembering that "the bare minimum", in our chosen profession, isn't just showing up at the office...it's operating a complex piece of machinery safely and in a timely manner and getting the people where they're going without getting them dead. Doing "the bare minimum" is what we are paid to do. Everything else is gravy.
Click to expand...
 
Boris Badenov said:
Being happy, engaged, and yes, well compensated. This isn't theory, I see it every day. It's certainly not all compensation, but compensation plays a roll. I would characterize the general drift as being "respected and appreciated", though. A guy (or gal) who feels as though their efforts are appreciated and respected will find it in themselves to work harder in order to continue to be appreciated and respected (in addition, one supposes and hopes, to wanting to do a good job for the sake of personal pride, etc). But if you want to turn someone in to a muttering malcontent who does, as you phrase it, "the bare minimum", there's no better way than to promote or pay more to people whose "stats" (time in service, hours, types, etc) are lower, but who shake hands the right way. It's worth remembering that "the bare minimum", in our chosen profession, isn't just showing up at the office...it's operating a complex piece of machinery safely and in a timely manner and getting the people where they're going without getting them dead. Doing "the bare minimum" is what we are paid to do. Everything else is gravy.
Click to expand...
Eloquently said.
 
Boris Badenov said:
It's worth remembering that "the bare minimum", in our chosen profession, isn't just showing up at the office...it's operating a complex piece of machinery safely and in a timely manner and getting the people where they're going without getting them dead. Doing "the bare minimum" is what we are paid to do. Everything else is gravy.
Click to expand...
I wanted to quote this again for truth.
 
Bandit_Driver said:
Great Work Rules
Great Bennies
Great QOL
Great MGMT
Great Crew
Solid Company Future with regards to keep and operating the aircraft
175K+

Most 135/91 outfits cannot afford to come even close to that or job security and retirement that the majors can offer.
Click to expand...
I mean if all the above are met, the 175 could probably be 25k or so lower.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top