Seggy
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree at all, just pointing out that hiring part timers may not be as easy as it sounds. It may be easier, it may be harder.
You should never assume anything with the FAA.
Retaining Pilots
- Thread starter hook_dupin
- Start date
I don't disagree at all, just pointing out that hiring part timers may not be as easy as it sounds. It may be easier, it may be harder.
You should never assume anything with the FAA.
RetiredATLATC
Well-Known Member
Sounds like the FAA in 2006 and the implementation of the Imposed Work Rules under Bush/Blakey
hook_dupin
Well-Known Member
I have been a part timer at two separate 135 outfits in separate FSDO regions, and I have not experienced this.
The two places I was at had very straight forward training plans. There were no "scaled down part timer plans." Separate from maximum hours, crew rest, and required time off, the POIs did not care how frequent/infrequent a person was scheduled.
Capt. Chaos
Well-Known Member
Woah... we gonna have to step outside?
Just have to stick to flying them an burn that A&P. But totally agree on 135 management.
Have to agree with being a retirement destination. Have a long term pay an benefit schedule, a hard schedule and that management pilots are pitching in anytime you are short on staff instead of stop gapping a line guys time off. Have competent employees through out the entire company and be proactive maintenance. Little things like a clueless dispatcher or constant MEL'd items tend to have a way to fester in a small company. It all circles around showing that the company is willing to invest in the employees and the equipment.
Crockrocket94
Well-Known Member
Boom. We have a set schedule. However, due to attrition or training or vacation, there are times guys are asked to work off time. I agree on those points though.
D
Deleted member 27505
Guest
Here's the guy who wrote the song that answers your question... he didn't get what he desired. All the dudes who stole his song did... you know, guys with the rhythm and musical sensibilities of dudes with 10000hr PIC jet hours who've never flown a taildragger upside down. Autopilots often sync, but they don't syncopate.
Throwing THIS into the mix probably wouldn't hurt...
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Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
If you can pay more than the regional you will have to make it up with QOL items and Benefits.
reasonable on call times
reasonable duty day and flight time limits (just because the FARS say it's legal doesn't make it right or safe.
Support PIC's decisions for go/no go decision (ie. no pilot pushing).
Vacation
Good and affordable Health Care
Per Diem or Expense account (I preferred the Expense account when I was in corporate)
Company paid uniforms
Company paid dry cleaning
Properly Maintain the Aircraft including the autopilots
Choose quality hotels and have a feedback system for hotels to get the bad ones out of the system (Hilton's & Marriott's brands are normally good)
Options for Rental Car in lieu of Hotel if the pilot chooses
reasonable on call times
reasonable duty day and flight time limits (just because the FARS say it's legal doesn't make it right or safe.
Support PIC's decisions for go/no go decision (ie. no pilot pushing).
Vacation
Good and affordable Health Care
Per Diem or Expense account (I preferred the Expense account when I was in corporate)
Company paid uniforms
Company paid dry cleaning
Properly Maintain the Aircraft including the autopilots
Choose quality hotels and have a feedback system for hotels to get the bad ones out of the system (Hilton's & Marriott's brands are normally good)
Options for Rental Car in lieu of Hotel if the pilot chooses
JOEFRIDAY2
Well-Known Member
Well, I enjoyed my 135 time. It was great. Wonderful customers that you can get to know on a personal level.
But in the end, being a 1099 "employee" gets kind of old with no benefits. So that meant extra taxes and high medical insurance costs for a family.
And although the schedule was very busy 4 months of the year--it was slow the rest of the time. This meant paychecks were really great during those 4 months and sucked most of the other times.
So I went with the airlines. They have the benefits and a steady paycheck.
I think what the others are saying is true. It's going to take a lot of money to keep pilots at a 135 these days.
But in the end, being a 1099 "employee" gets kind of old with no benefits. So that meant extra taxes and high medical insurance costs for a family.
And although the schedule was very busy 4 months of the year--it was slow the rest of the time. This meant paychecks were really great during those 4 months and sucked most of the other times.
So I went with the airlines. They have the benefits and a steady paycheck.
I think what the others are saying is true. It's going to take a lot of money to keep pilots at a 135 these days.
hook_dupin
Well-Known Member
Follow-on question: for an ATP-holder, what salary would keep you at a 135?
amorris311
Well-Known Member
That's an open ended question.
Base, work rules, health insurance, retirement (401k), hours of service, those are some, definitely not all, that can contribute to answering your question. It is not fair to say 80k a year when your base could be SEA and you have a 15 min call out and you subscribe to the loose interpretation of rest regulations. Hopefully I'm just highlighting things you already know.
gotWXdagain
Polished Member
Live in base, 1/1 Schedule, Yearly COLA plus at least 2%, 401(k) should be 100% match to at least 5%. Good health plan, ideally pays for medicals. If I'm in DEN, that looks like 80K/yr starting. Would consider 70K if it wouldn't take much with overtime incentives to get me to 80K.
No shenanigans like lookback rest, promissory note for training, new yearly contract for each recurrent/upgrade, counting time spent at a hotel away from home as part of your 13 days off in a calendar quarter.
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Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Sounds about right to this ATP holder.
General
Member
Pay has always been and issue at the Part 135 airlines. They can't pay what the airlines do because of the limited income the Part 135 airplanes can generate. They have a limited number of seats and each seat can produce just so much income based on the market they serve and the competition. Secondly, they have a smaller fleet and a much harder time covering maintenance cost. So, any demand for airline pay should be tempered with harsh economic reality.
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
Pilots will always change jobs for the same three reasons. Pay, equipment, QoL.
Something on par with the NBAA salary survey, or close too with other soft benefits. A clear simple compensation package is beautiful. Personally I like salary, and voluntary overtime paid at $____ per day. Easy to follow and know what you'll earn.
When talking to friends or other crews at the hotel and I hear about the other convoluted methods of compensation out there, I can't believe they accept it. Training days are unpaid, or situations such as a low salary for 8-10 days a month and every day over that is paid at $___ per day.
Sent from my Startac using Tapatalk.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Also a structured pay progression based on objective items like longevity, equipment type (if operating more than one) seat position (if operating multi-crew), and additional duties (check airman, instructor, etc), none of this "everyone's pay is negotiated differently and secret from everyone else's and raises are on merit".
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
^ This is huge The #1 morale problem at the current joint, AFAICT, is the old "pay and progression are political" playbook. It's so transparently unfair, do they think we don't notice? Don't do it!
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
The amount of wasted manager hours and employee goodwill trying to make a haphazard individually based compensation scheme work is awe inspiring (seen firsthand).
av8tr1
"Never tell me the odds!"
That's such a bizarre way of handling pay. Near as I can tell only the aviation industry is like that. Every salary in the corporate world is confidential and raises are usually based on merit. It's certainly not a perfect system but it allows for individual contributors to benefit greatly. And encourages employees to work harder than just the bare minimum. If everyone just did the minimums for the job we would never have advanced as a species.
Serious question, What is it that encourages a pilot to go the extra mile for passengers or employees? I've heard the stories of the Captain who bought pizza for all the stranded passengers and the crews who go out of their way to rescue a lost stuffed animal 6 states away for a kid. What is it that drives these airline employees to do this?