SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
No.
Restricted Privileges ATP certificate
- Thread starter Beech90
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Apophis
Resident Iconoclast
Actually, you'd be surprised man. It especially seems to be true in tactical airframes (F-15/16/18 etc etc). I've heard 150-200 is the norm, sometimes more, sometimes less.
USN88
Well-Known Member
Yup. While I was in the Navy I made friends with a FA-18 driver who lived down the street. In an 8 year commitment he said you'd fly anywhere from 1000-1500 hr. Two of those years are a "disestablished" sea tour which basically means who are attached to ships company and do a job that DOES NOT include flying airplanes. You'll routinely see guys retiring from fighters with 2000-2500tt after 20 years! That's why SWA only requires that much.
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
Ah, got it. Flying a desk makes one more qualified to fly a transport category aircraft at 1000 hours than a specialized college program does. Got it
JordanD
Chinese Food Enthusiast
Please don't tell me you're saying college aviation training is anywhere remotely close to military flight training...
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Nope, but it teaches a lot more discipline and leadership skills than going to an aviation school does. Which I'd say is equally or more important than stick and rudder skills as far as utilizing an ATP goes.
DragonStar45
Stuck on the Left Seat
I am 21, my hours far exceed all the ATP minimums, have a PIC type rating, turbine experience, and Part135 . All the good operators (cargo and passenger) have turned me down because I don't have an ATP. It is not only the 121 operators that require an ATP for their pilots. Yes, I can easily get hired with operators that are always with FAA investigation. Wait until you are in a position to move on to better compensation and QOL but have this age requirement hold you back.
chrisreedrules
Master Blaster
I know guys here in the FL ANG and they average maybe 10 hours of actual flight time a month. Maybe more if they go do training somewhere or deploy a few airframes somewhere overseas. Active duty I would imagine average anywhere from 150 to 200 a year. And the reason I don't think that military should be held to the same standards as civilian commercial pilots is because they aren't trained to the same standards we are. They are held to much higher standards. If you currently fly for a 135 or 121 operator you have ER scenario training once a year or so. Military does it quarterly. The operating conditions that they fly in would ground most civilian operations in some cases. The type of flying they are doing is extremely demanding by its very nature. Think about it... It is essentially single-pilot IFR on a rocket with an afterburner that goes 500+ knots. Talk about having to think way ahead of the aircraft. And the ones that fly the heavies are given much higher levels of responsibility at younger ages than most civilian pilots. Just my .02 but if all of the civilian world could afford to pay for the training that military pilots receive on an annual basis, the relatively excellent safety record we have would probably be even better.
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
Not at all. I'm saying its absurd that people want X, Y, and Z shortcuts to getting an ATP certificate. Why change it now? Dumb's down the whole point of having the requirement to begin with
JordanD
Chinese Food Enthusiast
Ah, gotcha. Yeah. I mean sure, I'd be happy if I was a lot closer to a 121 job, but the bottom line is if someone wants it they'll put in the work to get it.
DPApilot
GUYSH! GUYSH! GUYSH!
ClarkGriswold said:
Well I'm 20 and dot live at home. I have pretty nice big boy pants too. With the NPRM, you would still have to be 23 to upgrade. I honestly don't see any issue with allowing someone of my age be a first officer.... If you don't think someone under 23 can handle a transport category aircraft, well then I guess I'm here to prove you wrong.
chrisreedrules
Master Blaster
You may be mature for a 20 year old, but that doesn't mean every other 20 year old is. There is a reason they had the rule stuck at 23. Believe it or not, there is usually a big maturity difference with just a few years.
DPApilot
GUYSH! GUYSH! GUYSH!
chrisreedrules said:
Understandable. That's why I honestly think experience should play a bigger part. I've flown with a lot of captains, and I would much rather fly with the 2000 hour 25 year old who's been flying 121 for several years as opposed to the 5,000 hour CFI who was a DEC. Again though, it varies person by person. I would hope that having 2 types at my age with no violations or 121 failures would show my competency.
Skåning
Well-Known Member
Only GoJets has DECs. No need to worry, the industry isnt going to hell in a handbasket
ClarkGriswold
Non Nutritive Cereal Varnish Engineer
I know a few people under 23 and I was talking about being a CA not an FO. I will admit I do not know a whole lot about the NPRM and when I see ATP I think CA. Did you go to college, or did you move out because commuting to some insane outstation wouldnt work? I have noticed a huge difference with peoples maturity levels in the short 21-25 year range. You may be a competent pilot but there is a different mindset when you are Capytan.
purpel
Well-Known Member
I bet that 21 yr old would fly circles around that supposed big boy.
Don't be angry because us younger people got in aviation sooner and found our big boy pants before you did. If I saw DPApilot captaining my airplane I would shake his hand and say congrats. If I saw you captaining an airplane, I would do the same.
Get over the oh he is not old enough yet.
I am in the low twenties myself.
Keep thinking dumb, and to rephrase your answer if I had a thirty year old and a twenty year old applying for the job. I would forget about age, all I would care is about pilot quality and personality. Obviously you are one of those people that thinks just because we have a young face we are not ready. Psychology shows that 21-23 year old is when the brain fully matures.
Grow up...
ClarkGriswold
Non Nutritive Cereal Varnish Engineer
Struck a nerve I see BUT I was talking about more than just flying ability. Way to keep up with the conversation.
BTW I am 25
BTW I am 25
chrisreedrules
Master Blaster
They might be a better stick... But that has very little to do with commanding a crew and being a leader. Some of the best pilots I know are horrible at running a business/being the boss. Believe it or not, leadership/people skills come from life experiences. Of which most young people do not have.
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