"Required" VFR Clearance?

CDNPilotDave

CDNPilotDave

Well-Known Member
In discussion with a friend of mine, he brought up an experience where he was given a rash of (his perception) by ground for having not called clearance delivery beforehand. He was departing VFR from Class D airport into uncontrolled airspace and couldn't understand the requirement. I searched in the FAR/AIM and could find no indication that a departure clearance for a VFR flight from either Class C or D is required. Can anyone shed some regulatory light on this, please?
 
CDNPilotDave said:
In discussion with a friend of mine, he brought up an experience where he was given a rash of (his perception) by ground for having not called clearance delivery beforehand. He was departing VFR from Class D airport into uncontrolled airspace and couldn't understand the requirement. I searched in the FAR/AIM and could find no indication that a departure clearance for a VFR flight from either Class C or D is required. Can anyone shed some regulatory light on this, please?
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I don't know about something regulatory, but KAUS (Class C) does mention to call clearance delivery (for VFR) prior to ground in their ATIS. It's how I learned things were done down here, but I don't know if there is a reg on it.
 
You can get into a whole bunch of trouble in the DC SFRA for doing that. Where was he flying?
 
Some airport controllers, especially at smaller Class D airports that aren't that busy, have god complexes. I can't think of any other explanation for this reaction if it is true.

I think the normal reaction would be "Taxi to runway X, contact clearance delivery on XXX.XX on the taxi."

The only thing I can think of is that some class D airports there is more than average work involved arranging for flight following. KADS is one example. Still, many flights depart that airport VFR squawking 1200 all day.
 
KSBA, a Charlie, requires CD and says so in their ATIS. At a delta, though, that surprises me. Even KVNY (Class D), which is super busy as you know, doesn't make VFR traffic do the CD thing.
 
TXTBOOK said:
KSBA, a Charlie, requires CD and says so in their ATIS. At a delta, though, that surprises me. Even KVNY (Class D), which is super busy as you know, doesn't make VFR traffic do the CD thing.
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KLGB does, and it's not super duper busy (considering the amount of runways and it's size, at least). I'm not sure why it's there, but it always notes it in the ATIS, so no harm in just contacting them. :)
 
Thanks for the responses. My buddy's experience was out of KSAC (Class D). I guess most appropriate would have been "... taxi XX, information ?, VFR KABC", let Ground try to redirect to clearance delivery and respond that it is unnecessary and see where that conversation leads.
 
Teterboro ground wanted me to call Clearance for a VFR departure, they are a Class D, I found that odd too
 
But doesn't it say something like "all departures contact clearance delivery 124.3" on the ATIS? I can see forgetting and then just jumping over to CD, but if it's in the atis, you know it's required.
 
I just listened to KSAC "Information Zulu" and no mention of Clearance Delivery. Not to say it wasn't there at another time, but not at the moment.
 
CDNPilotDave said:
Thanks for the responses. My buddy's experience was out of KSAC (Class D). I guess most appropriate would have been "... taxi XX, information ?, VFR KABC", let Ground try to redirect to clearance delivery and respond that it is unnecessary and see where that conversation leads.
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Why would you say it's unnecessary?

That it "should" be on the ATIS is beside the point. In your scenario (they tell you to call CD), you are being given an ATC instruction being in an area where control is being exercised. You might as well be flying in the Class D airspace speaking to one frequency and being told to switch to another and "respond that it is unnecessary and see where that conversation leads..."

Probably to "take down this telephone number..."

Understand that Local Control, Ground and Clearance Delivery are just ways that a tower divides up its duties. At very quiet airports, they may all be on one. At others, they may want even VFR aircraft to contact CD to help with fitting them into the "system" in busy airspace.
 
KDWH, also a class D, is where I've done my training. My first two flight instructors taught me to contact CD. It's usually the same controller working CD and ground, and sometimes they won't even respond to you on CD for a VFR clearance, but I always tried calling them their first. Most of the time they'd say "roger, contact ground on 121.8 blah blah blah" and then I'd receive my official clearance into Houston Bravo with ground after I had begun my taxi.

The last flight instructor I had told me it was unnecessary to contact CD for VFR at our field, and I noticed that if I called ground and skipped CD they seemed indifferent; well, at least no one ever barked at me. Toured the tower a few months after my commercial and asked the tower manager what they preferred up there and he said just to contact ground for VFR.

So, it's probably good practice at an unfamilar airport to try CD first, and to definitely do so if ATIS instructs (obviously), but overall I guess it's just an airport to airport thing based on their operations, etc.
 
CDNPilotDave said:
Thanks for the responses. My buddy's experience was out of KSAC (Class D). I guess most appropriate would have been "... taxi XX, information ?, VFR KABC", let Ground try to redirect to clearance delivery and respond that it is unnecessary and see where that conversation leads.
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Can't speak to KSAC, but tell him to start flying out of KSCK :-P, we don't have CD so he doesn't have to worry about it.
 
I bet he flew out of a Terminal Radar Service Area (TRSA). I work a TRSA and we routinely have our VFR departures contact clearance delivery freq before even calling ground for taxi, it's pretty standard. (as instructed by the ATIS) The only way a VFR aircraft is getting off the ground without a TRSA clearance is by using the magic words "negative TRSA services" or similar words.
 
at the field I did most of my training - class C - the end of atis was always contact CD on ground freq X. Never once was that not in the atis that I can remember. The nearest D that we flew to somewhat frequently, rarely even used ground. Just call up tower for everything. North of there was a busy TRSA, in which case you better be calling CD. It just depends on the airport and if you are not familiar with it, do what you should be doing everywhere - call CD, nothing bad can come of it.
 
Joe28 said:
I bet he flew out of a Terminal Radar Service Area (TRSA). I work a TRSA and we routinely have our VFR departures contact clearance delivery freq before even calling ground for taxi, it's pretty standard. (as instructed by the ATIS) The only way a VFR aircraft is getting off the ground without a TRSA clearance is by using the magic words "negative TRSA services" or similar words.
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That makes sense. I've never flown in a TRSA but it would make sense to utilize CD in that environment.
 
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