Repeal Age 65

Why on earth would someone with an MBA be interested in being a FA? :confused:

Also, are you saying that most FA's are not bright? I know that's not what you meant, but come on. Maybe some of us had other very successful careers in our younger days and just want to try something different.

I didn't say flight attendants are stupid.

I simply said that the pool of people who are willing to take a job for $16,500 a year is not large.

Especially given the working conditions that you've got and with an employer that's constantly crapping on you and blaming you for its problems.

Yes, there will be a few people like you, who want to do something different.

But for the most part, you're looking at 22 year olds who have just about zero experience in the work world and who don't understand what it's like.
 
Why do I get the feeling that somewhere Chris Hansen is watching this thread?

-mini

I had a really funny comment, but considering how lawsuit happy some in the media are, I'll just refrain! ;)
 
I didn't say flight attendants are stupid.

I simply said that the pool of people who are willing to take a job for $16,500 a year is not large.

Especially given the working conditions that you've got and with an employer that's constantly crapping on you and blaming you for its problems.

Yes, there will be a few people like you, who want to do something different.

But for the most part, you're looking at 22 year olds who have just about zero experience in the work world and who don't understand what it's like.

When a major airline opens it's hiring window for F/As, it is DELUGED with thousands of applicants. Despite the starting pay of about $19k, thousands flock to apply because of the perceived glamour they think is there. Don't believe me? United's server actually crashed a few hours after they started accepting apps a few years ago. Delta was so flooded with applicants for non-speaker positions they ended up pulling the plug because of the volume of responses.

New-hire F/As classes (especially at the major level) are a huge range of ages, sizes, and experience levels. It is NOT just 22 year olds. :)
 
Why do I get the feeling that somewhere Chris Hansen is watching this thread?

-mini

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You told these guys they can work 5 more years

I certainly didn't tell them that. I told them to get the hell out of my seat. Several airlines now have 2-300 of these guys. Meanwhile, hundreds of pilots are getting furloughed. At one airline in particular, the furloughs almost exactly match the number of 60+ pilots. It is absolutely unconscionable for a 60 year old Captain who's spent 30+ years in his left seat at a major to continue while a junior pilot with young kids and a student loan is getting sent to the streets. Age 65 is an abomination.
 
I certainly didn't tell them that. I told them to get the hell out of my seat. ... It is absolutely unconscionable for a 60 year old Captain who's spent 30+ years in his left seat at a major to continue while a junior pilot with young kids and a student loan is getting sent to the streets. Age 65 is an abomination.

It's not your seat, it's theirs; live by the sword of seniority, die by the sword....

And after the pensions they were contractually promised when they started were gutted, you certainly cannot blame them for sticking around....the junior pilots with young kids and student loans have the rest of their careers to save for their retirement.
 
It's not your seat, it's theirs

The rules of the game when they started their careers said that they only owned that seat until the age of 60. You can't change the rules mid-game.

And after the pensions they were contractually promised when they started were gutted, you certainly cannot blame them for sticking around....

I certainly can blame them, and I do. Most of them voted in favor of the concessions packages that eliminated the very pensions that you refer to. Only the AAA pilots had their pensions voted away by the MEC without a membership vote. But since you bring up the pensions, what of the pilots who still have their pensions? The senior NWA pilots still have their full pensions, yet they refuse to retire. The old UPS and FDX pilots have incredible pensions, yet they too refuse to give up their seats, meanwhile FDX has rumors going that management might want to reduce staffing in the near future. Sorry, but the pensions argument doesn't cut it. Most of the senior pilots voted to get rid of the pensions, and the ones that still have them aren't retiring anyway. It's a matter of greed, not need. How they can sit there in that left seat and watch a 30 year old junior pilot with three kids and a $50k student loan get furloughed is absolutely despicable.
 
As a professional pilot, I'm not a supporter of Age-65 either.

100% of us got into this profession knowing that we had until 60 to make bank and cruise. Some may agree, others may not but that's quite alright. I can't imagine how a civilian pilot would look at the airline business as a career goal and bemoan Age-60, but if you give it another 10 years, they'll deem Age-65 as an aberration and ask for Age-70.

And this is highly debatable and may make some folks upset at me, but I can't see how firemen, policemen and air traffic controllers have mandatory retirement ages, but as pilots, some of us want to figuratively 'fly until we die'.
 
The rules of the game when they started their careers said that they only owned that seat until the age of 60. You can't change the rules mid-game.



I certainly can blame them, and I do. Most of them voted in favor of the concessions packages that eliminated the very pensions that you refer to. Only the AAA pilots had their pensions voted away by the MEC without a membership vote. But since you bring up the pensions, what of the pilots who still have their pensions? The senior NWA pilots still have their full pensions, yet they refuse to retire. The old UPS and FDX pilots have incredible pensions, yet they too refuse to give up their seats, meanwhile FDX has rumors going that management might want to reduce staffing in the near future. Sorry, but the pensions argument doesn't cut it. Most of the senior pilots voted to get rid of the pensions, and the ones that still have them aren't retiring anyway. It's a matter of greed, not need. How they can sit there in that left seat and watch a 30 year old junior pilot with three kids and a $50k student loan get furloughed is absolutely despicable.


BUT MOM I WANT MY TOY NOW!!!!!!

Seriously, what makes your family worth any more than the next guys.
The guys flying that are 60+ most likely went through multiple furloughs, multiple bankruptcies, several and when they were coming up on retirement had most of there savings wiped out and you think its ok to throw 'em out on the street to collect social security because your more deserving than they are?

Oh I forgot, its because they didn't plan for retirement...well they should have planned better right?

Of course the same thing could be said about the younger guy who thought it would be a good idea to start dropping kids and buy his Mcmansion in suburbia while he already had a daiper load of debt to drag around.

Its a 2 way street.
 
The rules of the game when they started their careers said that they only owned that seat until the age of 60. You can't change the rules mid-game.

If you were talking about tennis or monopoly, I would certainly agree. But a career, or an individual's life, isn't exactly the same situation. You are implying that, because the age 60 rule was in place when they embarked on their career, older pilots essentially signed a contract with younger pilots to stop working at that age, and that they don't have the right to lobby for changes they might find beneficial for themselves or the industry as a whole. There was no contract signed, no agreement made... while I certainly don't presume to know about you or your situation, it appears to me that you are inferring an arrangement according to your own wants and needs, and I must add, with some pretty strong disregard for others.

Most of the senior pilots voted to get rid of the pensions, and the ones that still have them aren't retiring anyway. It's a matter of greed, not need. How they can sit there in that left seat and watch a 30 year old junior pilot with three kids and a $50k student loan get furloughed is absolutely despicable.

That seems like a pretty broad brush to be painting with. Do you really have the intimate knowledge of such a large number of people's personal lives to making such a sweeping generalization?

I think we all need to realize that there are many factors that are causing the current hiring meltdown and impending furloughs. It is all too easy to assign blame to one particular group. Don't forget about fuel prices, the economy, the general poor quality of airline management, all the bonuses taken by airline executives in the past decade, etc. etc....
 
I certainly didn't tell them that. I told them to get the hell out of my seat. Several airlines now have 2-300 of these guys. Meanwhile, hundreds of pilots are getting furloughed. At one airline in particular, the furloughs almost exactly match the number of 60+ pilots. It is absolutely unconscionable for a 60 year old Captain who's spent 30+ years in his left seat at a major to continue while a junior pilot with young kids and a student loan is getting sent to the streets. Age 65 is an abomination.

Welcome back, dude!
 
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