Regional Airlines Seek Reduced Minimum Pilot-Experience Mandate

[Flying Saluki]

WHAT?????????

The reason there is the 1500 hour law is because of the special interest groups lobbying Congress in the wake of the Colgan accident....also the lack of training at Colgan was well documented throughout the aftermath...

FIFY

If the problem was Colgan's training problem, then the solution should have been to improve it, not make changes that affect the entire industry. National solutions to individual problems usually create new problems.

 

[Boris Badenov]

What problem do you imagine was created in this case?

 

[derg]

There are plenty of pilots that are qualified, but many that also have left the industry because of the pay structure.

The majors created the problem by outsourcing flying. The regionals, as subcontractors, underbid one another and ended up in a situation where no one wanted to do the job for the price they offered.

Nooooo one wants to hear my answer. Hell, I barely want to hear it myself.

 

[z987k]

There are plenty of pilots that are qualified, but many that also have left the industry because of the pay structure.

The majors created the problem by outsourcing flying. The regionals, as subcontractors, underbid one another and ended up in a situation where no one wanted to do the job for the price they offered.

Nooooo one wants to hear my answer. Hell, I barely want to hear it myself.

Qué?

 

[derg]

Qué?

Well, if you're going to fly American Airlines, you should be flying on American Airlines with pilots on the American Airlines seniority list under the American Airlines contract.

Zero sub carriers.

If the entry level aircraft is a CRJ-70, it's a CRJ-70. It used to be a Fokker and there were no problems filling seats in ground school.

And if seats can't be filled at their desired qualifications, a European "soup to nuts" program may worth looking into.

 

[Roger Roger]

What problem do you imagine was created in this case?

Well, the unintended consequence that I'm seeing is they have killed multi engine aircraft for air taxi work. Since you now have to have sim training in a 28000 lb jet or whatever to get a muti atp, nobody flying pax in, say, Navajos or king airs will be able to get pilots. So the Caravan and the Pilatus will rule the 135 world even more than they already do. Which those are great aircraft, but one wonders if that category going to exclusively single engine is necessarily a good thing in the long run.

 

[z987k]

Well, if you're going to fly American Airlines, you should be flying on American Airlines with pilots on the American Airlines seniority list under the American Airlines contract.

Zero sub carriers.

If the entry level aircraft is a CRJ-70, it's a CRJ-70. It used to be a Fokker and there were no problems filling seats in ground school.

And if seats can't be filled at their desired qualifications, a European "soup to nuts" program may worth looking into.

I don't think you'd find a lot of pilots that don't agree with that.

 

[DE727UPS]

Well, if you're going to fly American Airlines, you should be flying on American Airlines with pilots on the American Airlines seniority list under the American Airlines contract.

Zero sub carriers.

If the entry level aircraft is a CRJ-70, it's a CRJ-70. It used to be a Fokker and there were no problems filling seats in ground school.

And if seats can't be filled at their desired qualifications, a European "soup to nuts" program may worth looking into.

I remember when America West had Dash 8's. And free beer. Those were the days...

 

[derg]

I don't think you'd find a lot of pilots that don't agree with that.

Yeah, but I wouldn't support stapling regionals simply because they already fly American passengers which, in turn, would ruffle a lot of feathers.

 

[z987k]

Yeah, but I wouldn't support stapling regionals simply because they already fly American passengers which, in turn, would ruffle a lot of feathers.

Only lifers at said regionals.

 

[derg]

Only lifers at said regionals.

I get that feeling.

 

[z987k]

I get that feeling.

I hear a lot of "I don't want to learn another airplane."

Yup stop learning. That's what makes a great professional.

 

[derg]

I hear a lot of "I don't want to learn another airplane."

Yup stop learning. That's what makes a great professional.

Because it's so hard.

We parked a lot of pilots when we parked the 727. Later, skaters.

 

[z987k]

Because it's so hard.

We parked a lot of pilots when we parked the 727. Later, skaters.

 

[FloridaLarry]

I remember when America West had Dash 8's. And free beer. Those were the days...

Not sure about the free beer, but the Dashes were owned & operated by Mesa.

Oh, yeah, you only 'rent' beer.

 

[derg]

Not sure about the free beer, but the Dashes were owned & operated by Mesa.

Oh, yeah, you only 'rent' beer.

In the early days of America West? Like mid-80's? Are you shooooowah?

 

[mshunter]

Yeah, but I wouldn't support stapling regionals simply because they already fly American passengers which, in turn, would ruffle a lot of feathers.

How so? This one always perplexes me. I hear the sentiment, but have never really heard the reason for it, other than the guys being stapled being idiots.

 

[FloridaLarry]

In the early days of America West? Like mid-80's? Are you shooooowah?

Shoooooowah-er now. Next time: more research before keyboard!

In the 80s, America West operated some of their own Dash 100s. The code-share with Mesa dated from November 1992, a part of Am West's bankruptcy at the time. The dozen Dash-100s were sold, as were Am West's 747s. My sometimes-faulty memory says that Mesa either bought a smallish piece of Am West, or loaned them some money at about the same time. Probably some connection here...). The original service was an expansion of Mesa's 1900 service. It expanded to Dash 200s in 1997, It added some Fokker 70 jet service in 1995, but dumped the two Fokkers for CRJ-200s iin 1996 and later CRJ-900s.. The Dash 200s were eventually replaced by -300s, and the turbo-props lasted (+/-) to Mesa's 2010 bankruptcy. SJS lives!

America West also had a brief deal with (pre-Republic) Chautauqua Airlines for regional service as Am West tried to establish a Columbus OH hub (March 2001 - February 2003). Over-expansion on Am West's part, pulled the plug. ERJ-145s only.

Sources: Mesa website and Wikipedia.

 

[derg]

How so? This one always perplexes me. I hear the sentiment, but have never really heard the reason for it, other than the guys being stapled being idiots.

Everyone can fly jets.

But everyone won't show up on time, do the work, embrace the culture, do the things that the company wants them to do when they really don't feel like doing it and represent the brand well.

So if you simply adopt 1500 pilots overnight without any sort of personality screening or filtering, it's a potential nightmare — which is why sometimes mergers are usually a cultural disaster if not handled very carefully.

My employer is really big on their corporate image and I knew that when I got hired. Shoes shined, wear the coat when they say wear the coat, wear the hat, hair cut, look sharp. I knew it was a big deal when I filled out the UPAS application back in 1997 so those things have never been something I fretted because I knew exactly what I was getting into almost 20 years ago.

I had a copilot that was originally hired at another airline, who through merger/flow/whatever that spend inordinate amounts of time complaining about our uniform standards, not following them, how at "previous carrier" we weren't concerned with this or that and took each opportunity to tell me what he was and wasn't going to do. An example is that the pilot flying will stand at the door and say goodbye to passengers. But at his airline, they didn't do that because "we're not getting paid and I don't work without pay. Plus, I might get SARS".

He was basically the type of person that would probably walk into a fast-casual Mexican food restaurant and complain about the line, complain having to choose between tacos, burritos or a bowl, and complain about having to choose each and every item and then wait for it to be wrapped up. And OMG, I have to buy the chips separately… AT CHIPOTLE.

From my perspective, I could name a thousand great pilots that look at all of the items he complained about as "no big deal, I want to be a submarine captain, lets go fly jets" that would gleefully trade him positions.

I don't want that attitude to spread virally through the company.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I know this is an unpopular opinion 'round here, but my degree in not crashing airplanes has been more helpful than expected.

I won't say it's necessary to be successful, but saying that studying something for 4 (ok...more than 4) years isn't beneficial is just stupid.

Yeah, and my degrees not related to operating airplanes have been far more useful.

Breadth and depth. Not just breadth, not just depth.