Reasons For Washouts

Trojan said:
I was wondering if anyone could tell me the main reason people washout. In other words, what separates those who CPC from those who washout?
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A washout lacks confidence, common sense, knowledge, study skills and (more) god given talent.

All trainees: keep your mouth shut unless your making a transmission.
Your training team will take care of the rest.
 
scongdon said:
Barty, how is it sofar?
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I've almost completed my pre-stage 3 material (18 tests, and about 20 CBIs to complete before D side class) and I'm just waiting to get a D side class. Some rumors have started to surface that ERAM may be pushed back to the late fall here, which would open up a window for them to run at least one more D side and R side class before that happens. I've heard the possibility of a class being scheduled for March or April, since there is a class in session that still has about 2 months to go.

If not, it could get pretty interesting around here. My area has 5 A sides (myself included) and the center is scheduled to get 20 new trainees from OKC in May.

What are are you working BTW? My area adjoins the ZKC Jazz, Farmington and Blues sectors.
 
Barty said:
I've almost completed my pre-stage 3 material (18 tests, and about 20 CBIs to complete before D side class) and I'm just waiting to get a D side class. Some rumors have started to surface that ERAM may be pushed back to the late fall here, which would open up a window for them to run at least one more D side and R side class before that happens. I've heard the possibility of a class being scheduled for March or April, since there is a class in session that still has about 2 months to go.

If not, it could get pretty interesting around here. My area has 5 A sides (myself included) and the center is scheduled to get 20 new trainees from OKC in May.

What are are you working BTW? My area adjoins the ZKC Jazz, Farmington and Blues sectors.
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I'm just to the Northwest of that. I believe you butt up to 72 / 53 (on the low) then? My area borders ZDV/ZFW/ZMP/ZAB. It's ginormous. :D

We're on the downhill slide of stage 3 labs, as a matter of fact I just passed my last graded strip eval today. It's getting intense :)
 
scongdon said:
I'm just to the Northwest of that. I believe you butt up to 72 / 53 (on the low) then? My area borders ZDV/ZFW/ZMP/ZAB. It's ginormous. :D

We're on the downhill slide of stage 3 labs, as a matter of fact I just passed my last graded strip eval today. It's getting intense :)
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Nah, the only low sector my area adjoins in ZKC is 54. Our northernmost low is PAH 5. We own the shelf that comes into the southern part of 54 just north of CGI.

Congrats on the eval, so you've got about another 2-3 weeks before you hit the floor again?
 
Barty said:
My area has 5 A sides (myself included)....
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You guys still use A-sides? At ZID we go down to the floor for a day of A-side training, but that's it. No use for them anymore. If D-side training is held up you rot upstairs until the Dysim opens up.
 
Polarbear said:
You guys still use A-sides? At ZID we go down to the floor for a day of A-side training, but that's it. No use for them anymore. If D-side training is held up you rot upstairs until the Dysim opens up.
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Technically we do....but we don't really do anything. We stuff strips for the low sectors and distribute the strips for sigmets and airmets. Rest of the time we just study and occasionally plug in and observe the CPCs working traffic.
 
Barty said:
Yep, my area owns PAH-5 and MKL-7 low sectors. Do you fly for one of the schools up there at Paducah?
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Nope, but say hello if you hear a quick "Thanks, TR" on the EVV line...

I have flown out of PAH, but the owner sold the airplane and it isn't based there anymore :mad:.
 
Back to the thread, the washouts I've seen never really seemed to be in control of the frequency when it was more than very light traffic. They'd be timid and hesitant even if they had the right plan and the right out if it didn't work. I don't know if it's more lack of confidence, or lack of assertiveness, or maybe all just part of "they just didn't get it."

Conversely, I've seen a number of people incapable of the job get signed off precisely because they sounded confident, ran the frequencies well, and weren't hesitant about moving planes. Just ran them awfully.

And I'd disagree somewhat about working hard being all you need. I knew washouts who worked extremely hard, were excellent developmentals, studied the 7110 and LOA's on their own time and wanted nothing more than to sign off. But they just didn't "get it" for whatever reason. They'd lock up and just stare when they weren't sure about something. Well, you can't do that!
 
teetee said:
My husband has had several people washout from Non-Radar in his facility recently (one in his group). Even though it isn't pass/fail at the academy...if you struggle with it take extra time cause it IS pass/fail in the facilities.

The other thing is - ATC is not for everyone! Even if you do great on the pre-tests and pass the academy, you might not be cut for the job...it is as simple, hard and sad as that :( I know I am completely confident in my husband and his skills but we both sit on pins and needles a bit until he is CPC...no guarantee until you have done it!
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Non-radar is not pass/fail at ZAB. Not sure about other facilities though...
 
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