Reasons For Washouts
- Thread starter Trojan
- Start date
Wyopoke79
New Member
Attitude.....
People don't fully understand what they are getting into... this job consumes you for the first two years.... Lots of rules....and you are constantly told how bad you are doing... no one is going to pat you on the back when you do something good....
Just suck it up... study....and keep your mouth shut to a point.... no one likes a know it all trainee...because coming out of the academy...you think you know more than you do... Finally...be humble.
Well said and so true! To add a few things to that. You also need to be liked by your trainers, coworkers, and supe. Bring in candy, doughnuts, chips, or something every once and a wile. Haha, DQ Blizzard runs seem to work out well.
On a more serious note, you need to demonstrate that you have the ability to seperate traffic. It's basically ability, attitude, and a decent amount of luck from what I've seen in training so far. It really does consume you, and it's by far the worst 2 to 3 years of your life.
hard work my friend. nothing in life worth having comes easy!!!! if you truely want it, you'll make it happen. as far as wanting your trainer and coworkers to like you, don't be fake. just treat others with respect......the way you want them to treat you and you will go a long way in your facility. blizzard runs not withstanding heehee.
From what I've seen so far: attitude.
The most important thing is that people don't mind you being around. That doesn't mean crack jokes and introduce people to your awesome personality, that means keep your mouth shut.
Beyond that, some people just can't do this job.
Coming out of the academy you're probably not going to be prepared for what's in store for you. Trainers usually operate according to this motto: train to rate, write to wash. They don't care if they hurt your feelings and they will think less of you if they do.
Don't expect anything better than "No assistance needed," or the local equivalent on your training reports.
Don't talk back, ever, but do ask questions during debrief if you're unsure about something. Treat your trainers and tower cab/dark cave with reverence. Don't talk about non-ATC things in the tower unless spoken to by a trainer. Stay in the books. Don't brag at all. Don't stick up for other trainees - it will make the trainers think you're more loyal to the trainees than you are to them.
Training is all about making your trainers comfortable with working with you which means you have to...not suck, do work and remain clear of the pain in the ass tag.
The bottom line is you're getting paid to train. Do your best to assess your short falls and ask a trainer if they agree with what you think is a problem during debriefs. Never tell a trainer about something you think you're doing well, even during debrief. It is okay to, if you're not busy, ask your trainer if there was a better way to handle a given situation if you're unsure about it.
Work your traffic like your trainer would, even if that means having 6 different ways of working your traffic.
Focus on learning your operational priorities and learn your phraseology to a point that you don't have to think about it.
Operational priorities are key and by operational priorities I mean: who should you be telling to stand by, who should you be taxing and where should you be looking.
Operational Priorities are probably secondary in importance only to Voice Quality.
If you don't sound like you know what you're doing pilots won't listen and neither will trainers - that means they're going to assume you just suck instead of listening for things you're saying wrong.
No one is going to give you the benefit of the doubt.
Oh yeah - Laugh at yourself when appropriate and don't kiss ass. Controllers hate ass kissers.
challenger
New Member
So basically it is like the Military on a lighter note?
This is something that I've been wondering about the more I hear about these washouts. My geo-prefs will be GA and NY and it make me nervous when I hear how rare it is for either of them to have any trainee certified. I think I read somewhere that NY hasn't had any trainee become certified in like 3 years(not sure how true that is). When I think about it I'm sure that there must be plenty of brilliant, hard studying, positive attitude, motivated individuals that were eventually washed out.
It makes me wonder, is it really that it's that difficult? Perhaps the training at OKC just isn't good enough. To me it seems like the FAA is wasting a lot of money to have so many people spend 3-4 months at OKC then be assigned to a facility only to washout.
It makes me wonder, is it really that it's that difficult? Perhaps the training at OKC just isn't good enough. To me it seems like the FAA is wasting a lot of money to have so many people spend 3-4 months at OKC then be assigned to a facility only to washout.
Wyopoke79
New Member
You have no idea...
trojan, i hear ya, but i did go through it. i was a three level in the military for a year and a half. i had to work hard for my ratings and i was being 100% serious. people in my facitlity respected me as a three level because even when i didn't get along with someone on a personal level, i still respected them as profesionals and soaked up everything from everyone i could. sorry if i wasn't specific enough for you. i am starting over from square one, but you will see when you get there what you need to do. no one can tell you exactly what it is. if they could, people wouldn't wash out!
Gotcha. Sorry bout that. All I have to go on is your signature.
no apollogy needed. i'm in the same boat as you. we didn't even have class airspace in japan. it's totally different to go from being in the air force in japan to controlling in the states for the faa. but seriously, work hard! stay away from drama that can sometimes be in the facilities! it will suck you in and distract from your training.
bippoptl
Well-Known Member
deinitely NOT true. ZNY has people checking out all the time. As does LGA and JFK. I know the NY Tracon has a high washout rate, but the other facilities I listed do not. ZNY has a VERY high cpc rate. You need to know your material, and get along with people. The more the cpc's like you, the harder they will try to get you certified.
I agree, they must be referring to N90 and not ZNY. My old trainer is now a supervisor at N90 and I believe he was the last CPC they had for a while now. He was one of those GIFTED controllers if you know what I mean. There are a couple of controllers from ZNY that's on SM also that you can talk to. If anyone has questions about N90 I can ask my old trainer through Facebook.
Wyopoke79
New Member
teetee
New Member
My husband has had several people washout from Non-Radar in his facility recently (one in his group). Even though it isn't pass/fail at the academy...if you struggle with it take extra time cause it IS pass/fail in the facilities.
The other thing is - ATC is not for everyone! Even if you do great on the pre-tests and pass the academy, you might not be cut for the job...it is as simple, hard and sad as that
I know I am completely confident in my husband and his skills but we both sit on pins and needles a bit until he is CPC...no guarantee until you have done it!
The other thing is - ATC is not for everyone! Even if you do great on the pre-tests and pass the academy, you might not be cut for the job...it is as simple, hard and sad as that
I know I am completely confident in my husband and his skills but we both sit on pins and needles a bit until he is CPC...no guarantee until you have done it!
bippoptl
Well-Known Member
I know right! I can't believe I've been at ZNY fir 6 months already. What sucks it I haven't started training yet. They are so freaking slow. I start class in 2 weeks. I can't wait. I hate this sitting around. Are you CPC yet?
Wyopoke79
New Member
You know, I've heard that there is such a high amount of washouts at high level facilities like ZNY. But I've also heard that the amount of washouts are extremely exaggerated.
Thinking about that made me wonder if there is any kind of public information out there regarding the number of washouts.
Thinking about that made me wonder if there is any kind of public information out there regarding the number of washouts.