RAH Q400 in BTV

JordanD said:
That's when you take a delay. :)
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Very true. But when you have a like this and you forget a sandwich, it isnt fun. You also are nearing the end of your duty day by the end, and I really dont want to end up in a village overnight.
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FWIW we got a "*NOTE:" added to our training manuals soon after Colgan 3407. "In the event of an actual stall, altitude loss is acceptable" or something similar. Lawyers would've had a field day with that had it been my company (I assume Colgan had similar profiles)...

"So let's see, you train pilots to NOT lose altitude, which is exactly what this crew tried to do, yet you are blaming the crew?"

"And your realized the error after this incident, you quickly added a * to your training manuals?"

"No more questions."

Game. Set. Match.

The entire industry trained, repeatedly, for "maneuvering stalls" (what they are called here) similar to what Colgan experienced, and in fact altitude loss is/was a CAUSE OF FAILURE on checkrides.
 
wheelsup said:
FWIW we got a "*NOTE:" added to our training manuals soon after Colgan 3407. "In the event of an actual stall, altitude loss is acceptable" or something similar. Lawyers would've had a field day with that had it been my company (I assume Colgan had similar profiles)...

"So let's see, you train pilots to NOT lose altitude, which is exactly what this crew tried to do, yet you are blaming the crew?"

"And your realized the error after this incident, you quickly added a * to your training manuals?"

"No more questions."

Game. Set. Match.

The entire industry trained, repeatedly, for "maneuvering stalls" (what they are called here) similar to what Colgan experienced, and in fact altitude loss is/was a CAUSE OF FAILURE on checkrides.
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Thankfully at the past two companies I've worked for, that's no longer the case. A couple years ago, we went to a standard that allowed altitude loss. I still occasionally get paired up with a guy who doesn't know about it, and calls out "WATCH YOUR ALTITUDE!" while I intentionally lose 100-200' to bring the speed back up.
 
Had this guy in my jumpseat...he was fresh out of ioe, and missed terrain by 42 feet or so. Atc were the ones who reported it....it was a visual to 33
 
triple7 said:
Had this guy in my jumpseat...he was fresh out of ioe, and missed terrain by 42 feet or so. Atc were the ones who reported it....it was a visual to 33
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I'd have hoped the other guy in the cockpit wasn't fresh out of OE also and would have caught something like that as it was happening.
 
BobDDuck said:
I'd have hoped the other guy in the cockpit wasn't fresh out of OE also and would have caught something like that as it was happening.
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Odds would be, that he hasn't been on the airframe long... From what I hear the Q is junior there, so I'd bet there is a decent chance that both were pretty new.

That hill has nearly claimed a wide variety of skill and experience levels though, so I'd be interested to see what events led up
To the event
 
dasleben said:
Thankfully at the past two companies I've worked for, that's no longer the case. A couple years ago, we went to a standard that allowed altitude loss. I still occasionally get paired up with a guy who doesn't know about it, and calls out "WATCH YOUR ALTITUDE!" while I intentionally lose 100-200' to bring the speed back up.
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Seggy said:
Very true, but if that happened on an approach, we would be going around. If we suspected it was a GPWS fault, the plane would be grounded once we landed.
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Or, if you'd confirmed and been monitoring your altimeters along the way, you could proceed with the certain knowledge that your RA was FUBAR. TOO MUCH AUTOMATION! Too much rote-monkey flying. Fly the airplane. Know where you are. Fly the airplane some more!
 
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