QX2059 Jumpseater tries to shutdown engines

There’s enough nasty stuff in nail polish that I’d worry in a confined space like a flight deck it might be a legit safety hazard
 
SurferLucas said:
I’m not so sure he’s far off…a couple of captains at Red Triangle have had FO’s acting ‘peculiar’ on long flights. The real winner was a new, but legacy, FO that starts painting her toe nails during the redeye to JFK. Female Capt was like “uhhhh, why did you think this was the perfect place to do this?”
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I will certainly say it's a strange era.

I've had some times when I've found myself thinking "Well, I guess I have to be the bad guy and say something"
 
DeltaAlphaNovember said:
Why would he talk to the police without a lawyer? What a moron.
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Truth, I guess.

I (my son and family) learned the very hard lesson in the 1990s that cooperation at THAT point in time wasn't ANYthing like the lesson I learned in 1971. I made the mistake of basing our decisions then on an experience from a far-different time and found, quickly, that the world had changed.

Although the ultimate conclusion was positive for us - over several years - it was dearly a hard lesson to learn.

My only advice these days is to use union protection and invoke your right to legal counsel from the first moment of interaction. The "other side" is NOT your friend in any sense of the word.
 
MikeD said:
I’ve had 6 separate post-shutdown fuel fires in the A-10a TF34 engines. Other pilots have had same. We’d specifically not discharge fire bottles because the fire is a core fire, and the halon discharges outside the case and inside the nacelle. So discharging bottles was a waste of time. Just as we’d never pull a fire T-handle either for that emergency, because of the need to motor the engine with this type of fire, and with the T-handle pulled, engine motoring is no longer possible. Some pilots were thinking pulling the T-handle would shut the fuel off, which is true, but it’s shuts the pneumatic off also. The checklist covers this EP, but it’s not a boldface item; but in the middle of the emergency, there was no time to retrieve the QRH and look it up. It did become a emphasis item to know after we began having a number of problems with this on shutdowns.
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I always revert back to something I learned years ago from people with a lot of experience regarding big piston engines, if the exhaust catches on fire that's what it's there to do, all it does is direct fire to an exit. Just keep it turning is a better option than freaking out and jumping out. I recall once I was tired after working all night on a cantankerous machine at Reno, I was ready to keep going but cooler heads sent me to the hotel when the rest of the crew showed at 5am so I went and got a shower and a couple hours of sleep. When I walked back into the pits at around noon the airplane was already out on the ramp. And it had a stack fire, the pilot knew what to do, he kept cranking the engine. After an all nighter in the pits with some of the core crew sleeping on moving blankets waiting for something, We changed a couple of cylinders but we used late model 3350 stuff and the base nuts were not safetied with wire. They were safetied with a piece of metal that required a specific slide hammer to get it done, I don't remember whether we'd not brought the slide hammer of the metal pieces but I think we forgot the slide hammer. Anyways, when I got back the airplane had a stack fire out on the ramp, I couldn't go out and help because my ramp pass had been given to someone else, the pilot did exactly what he knew was correct. The person who was given my pass and told to man a fire bottle freaked out and and unleashed the fire bottle. Just embarrassing.
 
Skåning said:
No don’t blame LA. 15 years at various airlines, I’ve never seen anyone tooth pick/floss/brush/nail clip in their seats. He’s looking for attention and to shock.
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I’ve sent it unfortunately. People are rude, and becoming more inconsiderate by the day.
 
DeltaAlphaNovember said:
Why would he talk to the police without a lawyer? What a moron.
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It's quite obvious that he was experiencing some kind of mental meltdown. Rational and Cartesian thinking wasn't the best. That actually could be part of the defense strategy to claim that any statements were irrational and therefore to be ignored.
 
amp.cnn.com

Off-duty Alaska Airlines pilot Joseph Emerson said he took ‘magic mushrooms’ 48 hours before allegedly trying to shut off plane’s engines, court documents say | CNN

The off-duty Alaska Airlines pilot accused of attempting to disable a plane’s engines mid-flight told investigators he believed he was dreaming and had taken “magic mushrooms” 48 hours before the incident, according to state court records obtained by CNN.
amp.cnn.com amp.cnn.com

While everyone is focusing on the mushrooms, I think these provide some important context. Long term depression for 6 years, death of a friend triggering a mental break, not sleeping for 40 hours straight.

Emerson had experienced depression and the recent death of a friend, the documents say. He said he was having a nervous breakdown and told the flight crew he needed to be subdued, according to a separate federal criminal complaint.
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While in custody, Emerson told a police officer he became depressed about six months ago, according to an affidavit authored by an FBI agent and included alongside the federal complaint. Emerson denied taking any medications, the affidavit says, but he did discuss psychedelic mushrooms with the responding officer.

“The officer and Emerson talked about the use of psychedelic mushrooms and Emerson said it was his first-time taking mushrooms,” the affidavit says.
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abcnews.go.com

Pilot who allegedly tried to shut off engines hadn't slept in 40 hours: Authorities

The off-duty Alaska Airlines pilot facing attempted murder charges allegedly tried to shut down the engines "by engaging the Engine Fire Handle."
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com

Joseph David Emerson, who was en route to fly another plane on Sunday, had not slept for 40 hours and had discussed using psychedelic mushrooms, according to a criminal complaint.
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The FBI is investigating when exactly he allegedly took the mushrooms, according to a source familiar with the investigation. They're trying to figure out whether this was a psychedelic trip, a mental health crisis or something else, the source said
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Apparently a JetBlue captain pleaded temporary insanity due to sleep deprivation in 2012:
www.nbcnews.com

No, sleep deprivation probably won't make you go temporarily insane

www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com

Chronic sleep deprivation – or a severe, short-term lack of Z’s from, say, cramming for exams over two straight nights – can make you silly or sad, slow to react, memory-impaired and more apt to take risks.

But what it rarely does, according to a leading sleep expert, is make you go temporarily insane, as a JetBlue Airways pilot apparently did on a March 27 flight from New York to Las Vegas. After Clayton Osbon had a cockpit meltdown, ranting about religion and terrorists, passengers eventually wrestled him to the cabin floor and a co-pilot safely landed the plane. Osbon was charged with interfering with flight crew instructions.
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Both men made terrible choices showing up to work in an impaired state and need to be held accountable, but they still have my empathy.
 
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Roger Roger said:
This is what infuriates me about the discussion or lack thereof around mental health. People of a certain sociopolitical persuasion treat mental illness as a “well it’s just something that happens!!!” Topic and absolutely refuse to consider that things like skyrocketing inequality, lack of social safety nets, pollution, and poor physical health might just be contributing to our mental health problems.
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Lots of stuff to parse here.

It looks like you may be suggesting that certain sociopolitical groups are less likely to empathize with those with mental disorders or support reasonable treatment options. I would agree you, if that’s your point.

With regards to your point that these same groups look at mental illness as something that “just happens”, science might be on their side. Mental health disorders are most commonly hereditary in nature and somewhat random if there is no family history. So, some crappy people are right but don’t want to be part of the solution.

The factors you mention certainly affect the trajectory of mental health issues. Many mental disorders can be treated effectively with timely and sustained medical interventions.

Now, let’s talk about pilots. We all want the FAA to more readily embrace effective treatment regimens. That said, when this door is opened further, we will see more pilots losing their medicals. Are the unions going to fund medical retirements when pursuit of treatment goes wrong? For the most part, unions avoid the issue, if you don’t have a valid medical they are unlikely to go to bat for you.

Baby steps, deal with depression. Advocate for good science that finds almost no link between depression/suicide and homicide. Break that link and suicidal ideation and past suicide attempts can be addressed in therapy.
 
Pilot Fighter said:
Lots of stuff to parse here.

It looks like you may be suggesting that certain sociopolitical groups are less likely to empathize with those with mental disorders or support reasonable treatment options. I would agree you, if that’s your point.

With regards to your point that these same groups look at mental illness as something that “just happens”, science might be on their side. Mental health disorders are most commonly hereditary in nature and somewhat random if there is no family history. So, some crappy people are right but don’t want to be part of the solution.

The factors you mention certainly affect the trajectory of mental health issues. Many mental disorders can be treated effectively with timely and sustained medical interventions.

Now, let’s talk about pilots. We all want the FAA to more readily embrace effective treatment regimens. That said, when this door is opened further, we will see more pilots losing their medicals. Are the unions going to fund medical retirements when pursuit of treatment goes wrong? For the most part, unions avoid the issue, if you don’t have a valid medical they are unlikely to go to bat for you.

Baby steps, deal with depression. Advocate for good science that finds almost no link between depression/suicide and homicide. Break that link and suicidal ideation and past suicide attempts can be addressed in therapy.
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I don’t think the current science says that mental illness is at all solely hereditary. It seems laughable just on the surface to claim that socioeconomic conditions couldn’t cause, for example, depression or anxiety.
 
I find it hard to find empathy for an airline captain having a "mental break". He'd been through the wringer and come out not only clean but proficient and professional. I wonder if at some point prior to this he'd thought to himself "Self, I'm not feeling very good." and he wasn't afraid of losing everything he'd worked towards perhaps he might've said something to somebody rather then taking shrooms on a layover. You all hate Todd, but you should respect him, he pulled himself out of the game voluntarily.
 
Roger Roger said:
I don’t think the current science says that mental illness is at all solely hereditary. It seems laughable just on the surface to claim that socioeconomic conditions couldn’t cause, for example, depression or anxiety.
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I actually read something about this not long ago. Depression is mostly a middle class condition. People who are lower SES statistically don’t have the resources to know what it is, and think it’s just a normal aspect of their lives being difficult.
 
Roger Roger said:
I don’t think the current science says that mental illness is at all solely hereditary. It seems laughable just on the surface to claim that socioeconomic conditions couldn’t cause, for example, depression or anxiety.
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Serious mental disorders are most commonly seen in families. Not much debate in the science. There is continued debate about whether it’s more hereditary or shared factors.

Sad or stressed is not the same as clinical depression or severe anxiety. Socioeconomic conditions contribute, but more in poor access to treatment than anything else.

If you have been close to folks with depression, you would know that its cycles don’t always align with external factors. That’s why we are surprised when friends with picture perfect lives kill themselves.
 
roundout said:
I actually read something about this not long ago. Depression is mostly a middle class condition. People who are lower SES statistically don’t have the resources to know what it is, and think it’s just a normal aspect of their lives being difficult.
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I think what you mean is middle class people are more able to get diagnosed and treated. That just means that people who don’t have those luxuries are more likely to deal with those feelings in more destructive ways.
 
Roger Roger said:
I think what you mean is middle class people are more able to get diagnosed and treated. That just means that people who don’t have those luxuries are more likely to deal with those feelings in more destructive ways.
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I think there is some truth to the thought that working poor have some built in coping skills.

Unproductive time is surely a factor. Had an ex that had to keep working, traveling, competing to fend off the worst of her depression.
 
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