QX2059 Jumpseater tries to shutdown engines

[ChasenSFO]

Off-duty pilot took mushrooms 48 hours before midair scare, prosecutors say

Off-duty Alaska Airlines pilot Joseph Emerson caused a San Francisco-bound flight to make an emergency diversion to Oregon, authorities said.

www.aol.com

An off-duty Alaska Airlines pilot said he took "magic mushrooms" about 48 hours before authorities say he tried to shut off a plane's engines midflight, according to court documents filed Tuesday. Joseph Emerson told investigators in the aftermath of Sunday's midair scare aboard a San Francisco-bound flight that he thought he was dreaming and wanted to wake up, an Oregon prosecutor said in an affidavit.

You would have to eat so many mushrooms to be high for 48 hours that I don't know how the hell you'd get to the airport, thru TSA, to the gate, and into the cockpit. But if you did, you'd probably pull the no-no handles, I guess. Not sure I buy this unless he literally ate like half a pound of them. In which case I think he'd be in the ER and not in a jumpseat.

Let's look more globally...

EgyptAir Flight 990
China Eastern Airlines Flight 5735
Germanwings Flight 9525

I'm sure there are others...

Those were working pilots. I know of only 2 incidents ever where a jumpseating pilot put an aircraft and its occupants in grave danger. Out of a bajillion jumpseat rides.

 

[knot4u]

legitimate question, and this is hopefully not "SSI"

If you were to pull the handles and also blow the bottles, could the engine be restarted if the handle was reset? I don't think the answer is yes in other planes I've flown, at least not with any level of certainty (maybe if you windmilled it long enough?). Probably not a question that has much reason to have a book answer.

I think people assume the bottles discharge into the core. In my experience they let loose around the gearbox and inside of the inner bypass duct cover. By the time the bottles get blown the fuel and hydraulic fluid should've already been shut off (believe it or not we check these things) and shooting a bunch of stuff into the core is a bad idea for a lot of reasons, the foremost being what does anyone actually think it's going to do? After we check the shut-off valves we push the handles back in and make sure they open, I've never shut down an engine with the fire handle.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

As a new dad of young twins I feel terrible for this guy and his family.

As a new dad of young twins….eff this guy. Selfishly I say it could have been my kids in the back, but either way it was 83 of someone’s kids in the back.

I am sorry for his kids but I hope the charges stick.

I think that empathy is a wonderfully adult quality - and I also think it largely involves a capacity to feel sorry, or even feel period, for the defendant, while not condoning his actions.

 

[Bob Ridpath]

Hot take here... but last time i was on AS I felt like people generally felt too at home and comfortable flying. Like it was their living room. If I have to sit next to another person clipping their toenails in flight or otherwise performing bodily hygiene functions I'll be praying for someone to pull the fire handles.

Last time I flew commercially was some years ago, although I used to do it frequently. Window seat up front on a CRJ out of HPN, the gentleman on the aisle next to me was ... voluminous. I honestly thought about my options should a rejected take-off (or worse) require an evacuation with his bulk in my way.

I loved to fly at one time in a more genteel world, and had the chance from 13 or so on. People speak about how expensive it was but, having lived it, and done so on a buck a week allowance and saved thirty-five cents a day school lunch money, I'd disagree - maybe it was the student fares and, one day, military discount (at a time we had to fly in uniform). Anyway, it was a different world. TWA, Northeast, Executive, Mohawk, United, Eastern, Mexicana, Wien, US Air ... air travel was far, far different - objectively and not just due to the failing memory of an old man.

Pretty sure I've made my last commercial flight at this point but, damn, did I see things many of you could never imagine.

I can only speak to the awful videos I see these days, and maybe those are the minority of actual experience. I surely hope so. Mostly these days I'm glad to avoid the general public as much as possible (from grocery store to post office) and can't imagine anymore being stuck in that narrow aluminum tube while we share germs and a tiny space flying to wherever.

It saddens me, but it's true

 

[Skåning]

He had, I imagine, thousands of opportunities to successfully complete such an act, if he had truly wanted to. I don't really want to think how this would play out on a flight deck with just the two of you up there. It would be a fight to the death, if the controls weren't manipulated either intentionally or accidentally in the process, in a way that made the airplane unrecoverable.

This is my thinking too. The guy needs to be locked up for life, BUT systems need to change to prevent this in the future by having real and effective mental health options for pilots.

The whole industry is predicated on trust. I’m embarrassed that he was “one of ours”. A lot of people let him down ahead of his actions, but he made his choices. We need to get to the guys that are suffering but still going to work.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

The guy needs to be locked up for life,

I mean, channel the Multnomah County District Attorney as much as you like, but the Feds are a lot more clear-headed about it, and it doesn't even come close to a life sentence for what they've charged.

The whole industry is predicated on trust. I’m embarrassed that he was “one of ours”. A lot of people let him down ahead of his actions, but he made his choices. We need to get to the guys that are suffering but still going to work.

Also, yes.

 

[Minuteman]

Come on, be better.

 

[form810]

PAE to SFO, diverted into PDX
At the 10:40 mark in the liveatc mark you can hear PDX approach ask for threat level, and crew says they got the guy who tried to shut engines down subdued in the back.

No idea what this must’ve been like, and my details could be wrong. Just piecing things together based on the information I have.

Good work to the crew getting the plane on the ground safely.

https://archive.liveatc.net/kpdx/KPDX-ZSE-Oct-23-2023-0100Z.mp3

There is definitely more to this story. I'm going with Drugs, m'kay. Lol.

Still, OH, Alaska!

Sometimes, companies have to DO MORE than just check boxes on forms to meet regulatory requirements, eh?

Paying attention to "one of our own" people helps.

Actually giving a rat's keister about, well, ANYTHING, also helps.

 

[form810]

This is my thinking too. The guy needs to be locked up for life, BUT systems need to change to prevent this in the future by having real and effective mental health options for pilots.

The whole industry is predicated on trust. I’m embarrassed that he was “one of ours”. A lot of people let him down ahead of his actions, but he made his choices. We need to get to the guys that are suffering but still going to work.

Life!

Yes! That's IT. Indeed! Ask nary a question! Toss him; for he hath transgressed!!!

And a Napkin Boy, too!?! Oh, my! A sin against God and manly men!

Baby Jeebus didn't save him??? What? Didn't place his money in the right acolyte's 401k fund??

 

[Flyinthrew]

Last time I flew commercially was some years ago, although I used to do it frequently. Window seat up front on a CRJ out of HPN, the gentleman on the aisle next to me was ... voluminous. I honestly thought about my options should a rejected take-off (or worse) require an evacuation with his bulk in my way.

I loved to fly at one time in a more genteel world, and had the chance from 13 or so on. People speak about how expensive it was but, having lived it, and done so on a buck a week allowance and saved thirty-five cents a day school lunch money, I'd disagree - maybe it was the student fares and, one day, military discount (at a time we had to fly in uniform). Anyway, it was a different world. TWA, Northeast, Executive, Mohawk, United, Eastern, Mexicana, Wien, US Air ... air travel was far, far different - objectively and not just due to the failing memory of an old man.

Pretty sure I've made my last commercial flight at this point but, damn, did I see things many of you could never imagine.

I can only speak to the awful videos I see these days, and maybe those are the minority of actual experience. I surely hope so. Mostly these days I'm glad to avoid the general public as much as possible (from grocery store to post office) and can't imagine anymore being stuck in that narrow aluminum tube while we share germs and a tiny space flying to wherever.

It saddens me, but it's true

It’s way better than all the videos. I come out for a bathroom break and all 180 people are just…passing time like peaceful, easy people. Things get weird during boarding when people have run the airport gauntlet and tossed a 7am Sam Adams in on top of the stress, but 99/100 those people just fall asleep.

 

[form810]

Last time I flew commercially was some years ago, although I used to do it frequently. Window seat up front on a CRJ out of HPN, the gentleman on the aisle next to me was ... voluminous. I honestly thought about my options should a rejected take-off (or worse) require an evacuation with his bulk in my way.

I loved to fly at one time in a more genteel world, and had the chance from 13 or so on. People speak about how expensive it was but, having lived it, and done so on a buck a week allowance and saved thirty-five cents a day school lunch money, I'd disagree - maybe it was the student fares and, one day, military discount (at a time we had to fly in uniform). Anyway, it was a different world. TWA, Northeast, Executive, Mohawk, United, Eastern, Mexicana, Wien, US Air ... air travel was far, far different - objectively and not just due to the failing memory of an old man.

Pretty sure I've made my last commercial flight at this point but, damn, did I see things many of you could never imagine.

I can only speak to the awful videos I see these days, and maybe those are the minority of actual experience. I surely hope so. Mostly these days I'm glad to avoid the general public as much as possible (from grocery store to post office) and can't imagine anymore being stuck in that narrow aluminum tube while we share germs and a tiny space flying to wherever.

It saddens me, but it's true

It IS sad. It IS true. And it's particularly bad, because it's NOT just the Pax on the aircraft who, on average, have rapidly devolved into incompetence, incoherence, and self-pride as a result of their uneconomic- and immorally-based incomes.

 

[Skåning]

Life!

Yes! That's IT. Indeed! Ask nary a question! Toss him; for he hath transgressed!!!

Sweetheart, he tried to kill 80 people. Someone who lets the intrusive thoughts win and drives their car into a crowd should face the same consequences.

The difference is people buy a ticket based on trust that the two in the pointy end are gonna get em home safely. The system needs to support the two in the pointy end better. Give them options and a path to deal with their ish. Not just lie to their AME.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Hot take here... but last time i was on AS I felt like people generally felt too at home and comfortable flying. Like it was their living room. If I have to sit next to another person clipping their toenails in flight or otherwise performing bodily hygiene functions I'll be praying for someone to pull the fire handles.

I’ve seen it, numerous times.

We get inflight meals literally every leg.

It’s usually almost always after the meal is done. Now you’re gonna see the quirks. Out comes the toothpick and going at it. Or out comes a mini toothbrush and going at it. Or floss. Or (and this one is not after a meal per say, just anytime) cutting of nails. And these are men. If a lady was doing her nails, I could at least (kinda) see that. But a grown ass man.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I mean, come on man. When you’re on a plane, stick to societal norms expected for men. Even *I* piss standing in an airplane.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Sweetheart, he tried to kill 80 people. Someone who lets the intrusive thoughts win and drives their car into a crowd should face the same consequences.

The difference is people buy a ticket based on trust that the two in the pointy end are gonna get em home safely. The system needs to support the two in the pointy end better. Give them options and a path to deal with their ish. Not just lie to their AME.

Again, I don’t think he did.


The sole action of pulling a fire handle does not equal death of everyone. It sounds like he was in a trance and didn’t mean violence.

 

[MikeOH58]

Again, I don’t think he did.


The sole action of pulling a fire handle does not equal death of everyone. It sounds like he was in a trance and didn’t mean violence.

He didn’t simply turn off the Nav lights, your colleague attempted to shut off the engines mid flight of a passenger jet in a nefarious and abnormal way.

A drunk driver doesn’t intend violence. Should we say all is forgiven after killing someone because of impairment and intent?

Malicious intent or not this dude did something unthinkably extreme and crossed a line that’s generally unheard of crossing. Maybe he should have asked the crew to cuff him before something bad happens rather than abruptly attempting to disable the thrust of a passenger jet.

 

[melax]

The criminal complaint

https://cbsaustin.com/resources/pdf/d6b41158-4b55-4639-8b3e-39586c5ba807-CriminalComplaintJosephDavidEmersonUSDistrictCourt.pdf

 

[///AMG]

I’ve seen it, numerous times.

We get inflight meals literally every leg.

It’s usually almost always after the meal is done. Now you’re gonna see the quirks. Out comes the toothpick and going at it. Or out comes a mini toothbrush and going at it. Or floss. Or (and this one is not after a meal per say, just anytime) cutting of nails. And these are men. If a lady was doing her nails, I could at least (kinda) see that. But a grown ass man.

You guys in LA live in a bizarre world. This is insane

 

[Skåning]

You guys in LA live in a bizarre world. This is insane

No don’t blame LA. 15 years at various airlines, I’ve never seen anyone tooth pick/floss/brush/nail clip in their seats. He’s looking for attention and to shock.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

He didn’t simply turn off the Nav lights, your colleague attempted to shut off the engines mid flight of a passenger jet in a nefarious and abnormal way.

A drunk driver doesn’t intend violence. Should we say all is forgiven after killing someone because of impairment and intent?

One example, no one died. Other example, someone died. This is your example? I’m sure you can see the stark difference. These are trumped up charges. His intent, in that state of mind, was not to kill 83 people.

Malicious intent or not this dude did something unthinkably extreme and crossed a line that’s generally unheard of crossing. Maybe he should have asked the crew to cuff him before something bad happens rather than abruptly attempting to disable the thrust of a passenger jet.

Worse case? Flame out and 25 more minutes of flight while a crew can restart engines.

As stated, a real life crew in a 717 has UNintentionally turned off engine switches in flight (accomplishing basically the same thing almost) before quickly re-engaging them. Whoops. No one died.