Questions on Military Pilot Life

[Hacker15e]

Pretty much same story for the AF. A little bit of time helps (say, 200 hours or less) but more does not help. By the time you start flying formation, pretty much even field for everyone.

No matter what kind of experience you show up with, you'll be okay if you do things exactly the way you are taught by the military (and NOT the way you 'did it in the civilian world'). The fastest way to get your beans crushed is to start quibbling with the instructor over how to do something "based on your previous experience".

 

[///AMG]

The fastest way to get your beans crushed is to start quibbling with the instructor over how to do something "based on your previous experience".

I think this could be said about all of flight school, the FRS/FTU, as well as your first operational tour in its entirety. Been flying these hogs (mil airplanes at least) for almost 5 years, and I've still yet to quibble with anyone in a debrief. If you suck on a flight, shut up, color, and maybe take some notes if you can't remember real good. Nothing pisses dudes off more than a student who reaches for the excuse matrix, and I have seen this kind of rep follow folks around well beyond their flight school careers. It's a VERY small world, and you can bet that whenever we get a new guy, we ask around about him/her to folks we know at the RAG or people who knew them from flight school. If you were the know-it-all chach in the training command, we will find out before you ever check in.

 

[fish314]

I concur on the point about previous experience. It definitely helps to have some time, especially early on, but the advantage pretty much goes away. I've seen former airline guys with over a thousand hours rise to the top of their class and fall to the bottom of it. I think part of the difference is the ability to draw on your previous experience without relying on it. That's a subtle distinction, but it boils down to being able to learn what the military is trying to teach. Some of what the military is trying to teach is different than the way the civilians teach it, and some of it is a different type of flying (acro, formation, etc.). I think part of the 'it' factor that was previously mentioned is this.

And then again, some of the 'it' factor is completely nebulous. Who knows what it is, but some people have it, some don't.


Oh, I wanted to hit one other point on assignments. Once you leave pilot training with your first assignment, the process of selecting your second (and third, fourth, fifth) assignment is a little different. You still fill out a dream sheet, and the Air Force still takes that into account but puts you where they need you. But instead of a specific list of assignments, the field is both more broad and more narrow. For example, it is more broad in that there are a whole host of jobs out there that you could never have gotten out of pilot training: staff tours, school slots, training aircraft, non-major weapons system aircraft, UAVs, special foreign exchange or sister service exchange programs, etc. But in general, once you track to a type of aircraft, you are in that aircraft for the remainder of your career for most people. There is some cross-flow, but it's a special program and most people don't crossflow (that's the 'more narrow' that I mentioned). That is definitely true for heavies, anyway, and I believe it is still mostly true for fighters. With the CAF guys, though, it seems that they spend much more time in training command, especially as they progress up the ranks. So there might be a little more mobility from airframe to airframe on the pointy-nose side. Hacker would know better than I on that score.

 

[MikeD]

IOh, I wanted to hit one other point on assignments. Once you leave pilot training with your first assignment, the process of selecting your second (and third, fourth, fifth) assignment is a little different. You still fill out a dream sheet, and the Air Force still takes that into account but puts you where they need you. But instead of a specific list of assignments, the field is both more broad and more narrow. For example, it is more broad in that there are a whole host of jobs out there that you could never have gotten out of pilot training: staff tours, school slots, training aircraft, non-major weapons system aircraft, UAVs, special foreign exchange or sister service exchange programs, etc. But in general, once you track to a type of aircraft, you are in that aircraft for the remainder of your career for most people. There is some cross-flow, but it's a special program and most people don't crossflow (that's the 'more narrow' that I mentioned). That is definitely true for heavies, anyway, and I believe it is still mostly true for fighters. With the CAF guys, though, it seems that they spend much more time in training command, especially as they progress up the ranks. So there might be a little more mobility from airframe to airframe on the pointy-nose side. Hacker would know better than I on that score.

To add to the bolded part for the layperson's understanding, Fish means that you are considered by Personnel Center to be an "asset" from that aircrafts community in the AF. It doesn't mean you'll be flying that aircraft every day of every year, but only that the community owns you, for numbers and manpower purposes, etc. There are still the non-flying staff tours, career-broadening tours, and other out-of-cockpit assignments and needs of the AF, that Fish also mentioned.

 

[fish314]

To add to the bolded part for the layperson's understanding, Fish means that you are considered by Personnel Center to be an "asset" from that aircrafts community in the AF. It doesn't mean you'll be flying that aircraft every day of every year, but only that the community owns you, for numbers and manpower purposes, etc. There are still the non-flying staff tours, career-broadening tours, and other out-of-cockpit assignments and needs of the AF, that Fish also mentioned.

Sorry that wasn't clear... but exactly as Mike said.

 

[MikeD]

Sorry that wasn't clear... but exactly as Mike said.

I wasn't correcting you, as your point was clear and concise; I was just expanding on that particular point as to how it realistically applies to us career/assignment-wise. Only because to the average layperson, many think flying is actually our primary responsibility......ha!

Get that stack of OPRs completed, exec!

 

[fish314]

I wasn't correcting you, as your point was clear and concise; I was just expanding on that particular point as to how it realistically applies to us career/assignment-wise. Only because to the average layperson, many think flying is actually our primary responsibility......ha!

Get that stack of OPRs completed, exec!

Oh how I wish!

 

[staplegun]

Time for me to dust-off my "lightbulb" theory of flight training.

I was A Navy T-34C instructor at Whiting Field in the mid-eighties so I got to see this up close and personal!

My theory is that every individual who enters flight training, whether military or civilian, come into it with a figurative "lightbulb" over their head - think pictorially of a halo hovering over ones head.

When the "lightbulb" turns on, it means that that individual "gets it."

What does "gets it" mean? It means that they start to relax and have situational awareness, that they start to actually understand how to maneuver the aircraft vs. mechnically disgorging procedures, etc. Those of you who fly for a living or have lots of time know what I mean.

Individual "lightbulbs" come on at different times during training, sometimes they don't come on at all. Some "lightbulbs" are on from the get-go, some take awhile.

In the military world the "lightbulb" has to come on fairly quickly; by the time you get to intermediate/advanced flight training, it had better be on or you will be washed out. I can't speak to the civilian world because I don't have experience there...

Anyway, JMHO, YMMV!

Kevin

 

[MikeD]

I was A Navy T-34C instructor at Whiting Field in the mid-eighties so I got to see this up close and personal!

Kevin

Were the T-28Cs still in use in the VT's at the time?

 

[staplegun]

Were the T-28Cs still in use in the VT's at the time?

Nope. I went through primary in the T-28 in 1981 and they were gone very soon thereafter.

Kevin

 

[MikeD]

Nope. I went through primary in the T-28 in 1981 and they were gone very soon thereafter.

Kevin

Interesting that the USN had T-28s and T-34s in the different VTs at the same time. Was there some rhyme or reason of who went to which one for primary?

 

[staplegun]

Interesting that the USN had T-28s and T-34s in the different VTs at the same time. Was there some rhyme or reason of who went to which one for primary?

They asked for volunteers to fly the T-28 & I did!

If they didn't get enough volunteers they drafted people, I don't remeber if that happened or not but I seem to remember that all slots were filled by volunteers.

My reasoning for volunteering for it was that I would never be able to fly a 1420-shaft-horse-powered piston engine WWII type aircraft again if I didn't do it then. Turns out I was probably right, although as a trainer, it was an incredibly complex aircraft and probably contributed to my selction as a Helicopter pilot. C'est la vie, it's all turned out OK in the end!


Kevin

 

[bunk22]

Didn't all students CQ in the T-28 at some point?

 

[///AMG]

Didn't all students CQ in the T-28 at some point?

I know my old man did, during intermediate. He has a photo of himself taking a trap with the canopy open (that was SOP I guess). Pretty cool

 

[The Fez]

I know my old man did, during intermediate. He has a photo of himself taking a trap with the canopy open (that was SOP I guess). Pretty cool

According to an Old Salt I know, the open canopy "procedure" was for the unfortunate stud who bent the bird up on trap. Apparently, the T-28's engine had a bad habit of coming loose if you hit the nose gear too hard and would rupture the fuel lines. Having the canopy already open made it easier to stand up and start running away from what's left of your ride.

 

[///AMG]

Yeah if pictures are a testament to the standard procedures of the times, it would appear that most of the early jets did this as well (banshee, cougar, fury, etc)

 

[Hacker15e]

According to an Old Salt I know, the open canopy "procedure" was for the unfortunate stud who bent the bird up on trap. Apparently, the T-28's engine had a bad habit of coming loose if you hit the nose gear too hard and would rupture the fuel lines. Having the canopy already open made it easier to stand up and start running away from what's left of your ride.

It is important to realize that all of the other piston airplanes that landed on carriers did so with the canopy open, too. Even some of the first jets, like the Phantom, the Fury, Panther, Cougar, etc, all landed with canopies open as well.

All for emergency egress in the event of a bad landing or a bolter into the water.

 

[FlyByWire22]

Thanks again for all the responses! Just curious as to when the grading starts, in regards to choosing a pipeline. Do you receive grades as soon as you get to IFS/API or is Primary the beginning of grades? Also, does anyone know if the T-6 is going to completely replace the T-34 on the Navy side of the house? If so, has the replacement already begun?

 

[The Fez]

It is important to realize that all of the other piston airplanes that landed on carriers did so with the canopy open, too. Even some of the first jets, like the Phantom, the Fury, Panther, Cougar, etc, all landed with canopies open as well.

All for emergency egress in the event of a bad landing or a bolter into the water.

Thanks for the info. The guy who told me about it was some sort of deckhand during the tail-end of WW2 and for several years after. Apparently, the deck crew also used to make bets on which wire the plane would catch, how many attempts it would take to get aboard, etc. They had quite the system as he explained it. In his words, "It's how I could afford a girl in every port and a wife at home!"

 

[The Fez]

Thanks again for all the responses! Just curious as to when the grading starts, in regards to choosing a pipeline. Do you receive grades as soon as you get to IFS/API or is Primary the beginning of grades? Also, does anyone know if the T-6 is going to completely replace the T-34 on the Navy side of the house? If so, has the replacement already begun?

On the AF side, your IFS grades don't mean squat when you get to UPT. They're certainly an indicator of how much you're trying in the program, but they don't follow you. Your scores start when you begin taking tests in Phase 1 (Aerospace Physiology and Survival is the first event), and when you hit the flightline in Phases 2 and 3 your flying grades and your flight commander's overall impression of you gets added into the mix.

As far as the T-34 and T-6 transition, I had a friend at Whiting while I was at Rucker and they already had several T-6's on the ramp. They looked strange with the orange and white paint scheme, but the HUD looked cool...though I heard they were having problems with it overheating so they weren't using it. That was 2010, so it may be fixed now.